# 5.2 TTK change \[Megathread\] **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 15, 2019, 6:43pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/5-2-ttk-change-megathread/107409 "2019-11-15T18:43:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![SmileAsTheyDie](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/smileastheydie/32/103533_2.png) [@SmileAsTheyDie](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/SmileAsTheyDie)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 6:12am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/5-2-ttk-change-megathread/107409/161 "2019-11-20T06:12:00Z")
> [@filthmcnasty](#): > > > [@FF\_smart27](#): > > > > (Quote) > > Because the community has been taken over by noobs! > > They tremble at the thought that they will have to get off their belly and move closer to the objective and earn their kills! They see their biggest fear becoming reality…they will no longer be able to hide in their dark corners because they will be instantly spotted! > > > > Dice is pi$$ing on the noob parade and i love it > > Noobs? The people that fought off the first ttk change were vets. I like the current ttk and have been playing for over 10 years! I DO NOT want the insane ttk of BF1 again! In some cases the vets \*are \*noobs ---
**Author:** ![Hanzzo\_TACO](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/h/ecd19e/32.png) [@Hanzzo\_TACO](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Hanzzo_TACO)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2020, 5:47pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/5-2-ttk-change-megathread/107409/162 "2020-01-19T17:47:00Z")
Without getting into all the math and specifics about certain weapons I can say that the game was way more fun before 5.2. The passive spotting is a terrible addition that I don’t think anyone asked for. Target acquisition shouldn’t always be easy. Hiding should sometimes be a viable strategy. The gunplay was excellent before 5.2 and is much less fun now. I would support a reversion to the 5.0 weapon damage models. I think people didn’t like dying behind cover which isn’t really a problem with TTK but increasing the TTK is a way of making that problem less obvious, though not eliminating it. Personally although it is frustrating to be shot around a corner I don’t let it bother me too much and I try to remember that on my opponents screen I was still in view when he or she fired. I miss attrition. Ammo management added another layer of strategic depth to the game. Now we all have seemingly unlimited ammo. I don’t think people were ever turned off on the game for the reasons that dice extrapolated from their data. Team balance and cheaters are by far the most enraging parts of the game. If the teams are wildly unbalanced they have a tendency to stay that way and if your team is getting crushed you will likely also get crushed even if you are a good player. As for cheaters, they are laughably rampant on PC. Dice should be embarrassed to allow this to continue. Playing a game is about more than telemetry. The data can’t necessarily tell you if people are having fun. Please listen to what your players are saying in addition to collecting and analyzing data. The feedback on from you players on the forums should provide you with tons of valuable information and it should be used in concert with telemetry because without listening to the users all that data is useless. I barely play since 5.2 but I check the forums every few days hoping that they will revert these changes. I’ve played every title since 1942 and I will sadly not buy another BF title if this is the direction the franchise is going. Go back to the old gunplay and I’ll come back in a second. Get rid of the spotting garbage as well and I’ll be ecstatic. ---
**Author:** ![rorypreston](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/r/a698b9/32.png) [@rorypreston](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/rorypreston)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2020, 2:52pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/5-2-ttk-change-megathread/107409/163 "2020-01-21T14:52:00Z")
People who are saying the TTK backlash is only a small part of the player base are kidding themselves. ---
**Author:** ![VincentNZ](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/v/ce7236/32.png) [@VincentNZ](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/VincentNZ)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2020, 3:11pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/5-2-ttk-change-megathread/107409/164 "2020-01-21T15:11:00Z")
> [@CT1924](#): > > > [@VincentNZ](#): > > > > (Quote) > > > > A “few rounds” translates to +2 +6. Hits that is, not bullets. If you need 14 or even just 10 bullets to kill, that this is a huge portion of any mag size. But I am sure they will add a drum magazine on the M1 Garand, or a 50 round, 1m long stick magazine on the side of the MP34. > > If you have 30 rounds in your weapon and need 10 to kill an opponent you need an accuracy of 33%. Look at your own stats and consider your own accuracy. You are below that? Well, so is everyone else.Two days ago, a guy here said that tapping on the head is the way to kill an enemy at 30m with the Tommy Gun. Accuracy showed 11%. New BTK model means 9 BTK, or five headshots. Well that is not even happening with a drum magazine.People simply do not analyze their own stats, they have no idea at the ranges they actively engage, or are forced to engage, nor do they know the already tight limits on many weapon classes of BFV. Like people still think that the STG44 is a good weapon, or that recoil control is all skill and 100% counterable. > > Stg44 is good though(compared to everything else). Practically no recoil, and if you go all left specs you have the draw time of an smg and mobile accuracy. Vertically recoil can be adjusted for, but not negated. So yes and no. You quoted me from back when 5.0 was still live. 😃 Vrec, by the way is something that is totally counterable simply by moving your mouse down. Hence it is usually disregarded in things like FTK charts. Hrec, spread to recoil and recoil pattern however is not totally counterable. It randomly shifts you aimpoint to the left or right after every shot up, which can be up to 1200 RPM. And yeah in 5.0 the STG44 was pretty much the worst weapon the Assault had, and was objectively one of the worst weapons in the game. ---
**Author:** ![CT1924](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/ct1924/32/106572_2.png) [@CT1924](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/CT1924)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2020, 3:19pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/5-2-ttk-change-megathread/107409/165 "2020-01-21T15:19:00Z")
> [@m4derr](#): > > New patch breaks almost everything in the game. > > 1 - if you have 20 hp, you can’t outplay a 100hp player, even from behind, indeed, he has time to turn around, to drink 3 coffees and to kill you. > 2 - need to reload after 1 to 2 kills… > 3 - tanks & planes are way too op without any good infantry counter weapon, if you are a good tank/plane, you can literally stay alive a full breakthrough game, wrecking ennemies line like butter > 4 - you can’t kill a guy crossing from one cover to another cover if you don’t have time to put 25 bullets in his body… > > Well, totally crap, made for noobs, creating weird situations. Game had a competitiv feeling, now i have the feeling i’m playing bulletsponge The Division… Sums it up. Game is no longer fun. Skill does not matter, only what gun you have. Pleaee fix by Friday. ---
**Author:** ![Foxassassin](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Foxassassin](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Foxassassin)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 3:03pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/5-2-ttk-change-megathread/107409/166 "2020-01-24T15:03:00Z")
> [@m4derr](#): > > New patch breaks almost everything in the game. > > 1 - if you have 20 hp, you can’t outplay a 100hp player, even from behind, indeed, he has time to turn around, to drink 3 coffees and to kill you. > 2 - need to reload after 1 to 2 kills… > 3 - tanks & planes are way too op without any good infantry counter weapon, if you are a good tank/plane, you can literally stay alive a full breakthrough game, wrecking ennemies line like butter > 4 - you can’t kill a guy crossing from one cover to another cover if you don’t have time to put 25 bullets in his body… > > Well, totally crap, made for noobs, creating weird situations. Game had a competitiv feeling, now i have the feeling i’m playing bulletsponge The Division… ## [Link to section: People keep comparing the TTK to other games,but it most reminds me of Planetside 2’s. And that should be worrying.](#people-keep-comparing-the-ttk-to-other-gamesbut-it-most-reminds-me-of-planetside-2s-and-that-should-be-worrying-1)People keep comparing the TTK to other games,but it most reminds me of Planetside 2’s. And that should be worrying. The guns in that game have the same,or slightly better falloff for the most part,dispite the map being a litteral continent, and everything still feels like bulletsponges. With the express intent of forcing players to make every shot a headshot. Center mass will just get you killed most of the time,even if you get the drop on your enemy. Shotguns have even lower dropoff than in BF5,you pretty much have to be touching the other player to get full damage,and it still takes several shots - Tanks are near useless for attacking anything other than other tanks as ALL explosives in the game do near nothing to infantry. The only way to kill both air and vehicles is to have MASS amounts of people armed with rockets volley firing at a single vehicle,OR have someone, one singular person run around with C4 (usualy the Light assault class which can fly),which a lone player can solo all but one vehicle in the game alone,with just two sticks of C4. Unless the vehicle uses a perk that reduces c4 damage specifically ## [Link to section: . There’s only one rocket launcher in the game that can kill with a direct hit. Underbarel grenade launchers take three to four DIRECT hits to kill someone (variables because of shields and whatnot) a](#theres-only-one-rocket-launcher-in-the-game-that-can-kill-with-a-direct-hit-underbarel-grenade-launchers-take-three-to-four-direct-hits-to-kill-someone-variables-because-of-shields-and-whatnot-and-next-to-no-splash-range-smoke-launchers-dont-work-and-are-mostly-used-for-lagging-other-players-rather-than-cover-the-games-primary-grenade-launcher-takes-three-direct-hits-to-kill-and-has-next-to-no-splash-range-2). There’s only one rocket launcher in the game that can kill with a direct hit. Underbarel grenade launchers take three to four DIRECT hits to kill someone (variables because of shields and whatnot) and next to no splash range. Smoke launchers don’t work and are mostly used for lagging other players rather than cover. The game’s primary grenade launcher takes three direct hits to kill and has next to no splash range. ## [Link to section: Then come air. The same mentality as here. “You just need to get into an aircraft yourself” while aircraft just farm infantry with no real threats. As the aircraft in that game can hover,it’s easier t](#then-come-air-the-same-mentality-as-here-you-just-need-to-get-into-an-aircraft-yourself-while-aircraft-just-farm-infantry-with-no-real-threats-as-the-aircraft-in-that-game-can-hoverits-easier-to-hit-them-with-explosivesbut-theyre-much-tankier-too-anti-aircraft-guns-and-tanks-have-a-very-low-50m-damage-ceilingwhich-afterwards-not-only-drastically-lowers-damagebut-the-velocity-of-the-aa-rounds-slows-to-a-crawland-its-next-to-impossible-to-hit-them-anyway-some-of-the-discriptions-on-said-guns-even-just-call-them-deterents-meanwhile-the-aircraft-has-several-means-of-healing-an-over-time-regenan-emergency-repairor-just-flying-off-somewhere-to-land-and-heal-manually-3)Then come air. The same mentality as here. “You just need to get into an aircraft yourself” while aircraft just farm infantry with no real threats. As the aircraft in that game can hover,it’s easier to hit them with explosives,but they’re much tankier too. Anti-aircraft guns and tanks have a very low (50M?) damage ceiling,which afterwards, not only drastically lowers damage,but the velocity of the AA rounds slows to a crawl,and it’s next to impossible to hit them anyway. Some of the discriptions on said guns even just call them “deterents”. Meanwhile the aircraft has several means of healing, an over time regen,an emergency repair,or just flying off somewhere to land and heal manually Does that sound familiar? Or how people are trying to push this game towards? . Extreme focus on headshot only? . Pathetic range damage? . Useless explosives? . Armor’s only existance being to fight other armor? . People wanting to solo a tank with minimal effort? . AA nerfed into the ground? . Over dominating air? . ## [Link to section: The mentality that some roles need mass numbers to clear? (aircraft in particular)](#the-mentality-that-some-roles-need-mass-numbers-to-clear-aircraft-in-particular-4)The mentality that some roles need mass numbers to clear? (aircraft in particular) I don’t want to see Battlefield like this… ---
**Author:** ![Murmilloz](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/murmilloz/32/112810_2.png) [@Murmilloz](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Murmilloz)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 10:35pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/5-2-ttk-change-megathread/107409/167 "2020-01-24T22:35:00Z")
I just took the plunge and bought this game, I’ve played a small amount before through origin access. I think a few hours in total. I played half of one map and closed the game, oh my… It’s really really bad. This game is so arcade-y.. People just don’t die, it feels horrible. Not like any other BF I have played. And now I know why. ---
**Author:** ![Firked](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/firked/32/112776_2.png) [@Firked](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Firked)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2020, 11:19pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/5-2-ttk-change-megathread/107409/168 "2020-01-27T23:19:00Z")
I bought a new gaming PC last year before Christmas with the aim of getting back into the new Battlefield series after a LOONG break from gaming altogether… What have you done to the game? This isn’ Battlefield, it is a big steaming pile of rubbish. I feel quite angry about it! It is now a really, really, bad game. ---
**Author:** ![GrizzGolf](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/grizzgolf/32/102129_2.png) [@GrizzGolf](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/GrizzGolf)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2020, 9:36am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/5-2-ttk-change-megathread/107409/169 "2020-01-28T09:36:00Z")
I was wrong. I see they are turning it back to 5.0. ---
**Author:** ![BeastofBourbon84](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@BeastofBourbon84](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/BeastofBourbon84)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2020, 12:25pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/5-2-ttk-change-megathread/107409/170 "2020-01-28T12:25:00Z")
They say they’ll rebalance based on 5.0 stats which suggests they might reintroduce a modicum of recoil and go from there… Not flat out make it 5.0 again. I don’t have much hope but hey can’t be much worse then 5.2 right. ---
**Author:** ![SgtStav](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@SgtStav](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/SgtStav)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2020, 6:33pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/5-2-ttk-change-megathread/107409/171 "2020-01-28T18:33:00Z")
Dice hopless, make a 5.0 (light) just so they can keep faces. Man upp and just revert. Think of all the time they have used on that ttk change they now (revert) All that time could have been used on bugs anti cheat , planes/tank balance. And countless other things ---
**Author:** ![Imyourlittleboy](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/imyourlittleboy/32/112786_2.png) [@Imyourlittleboy](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Imyourlittleboy)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 3:55pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/5-2-ttk-change-megathread/107409/172 "2020-02-09T15:55:00Z")
> [@ChiefSniper](#): > > > [@moose004](#): > > > > The graph at 4:56…are they seriously saying that an MG42 will take THIRTEEN ROUNDS to kill somebody at 100 meters with these changes? > > Yes. This is a game. Not real life. > . > Plumbers don’t double in size when they eat mushrooms, and blue hedgehogs don’t exist. > > And if they make gameplay changes that make the game less fun, that’s a problem. Would you say the same thing if it took 50 rounds? What if they made a gun so weak it is effectively useless? What if they make a gun so strong everyone uses it? It’s just a game, right? So it doesn’t matter, right? ---
**Author:** ![Murmilloz](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/murmilloz/32/112810_2.png) [@Murmilloz](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Murmilloz)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 9:31pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/5-2-ttk-change-megathread/107409/173 "2020-03-22T21:31:00Z")
> [@Murmilloz](#): > > I just took the plunge and bought this game, I’ve played a small amount before through origin access. I think a few hours in total. > > I played half of one map and closed the game, oh my… It’s really really bad. > This game is so arcade-y.. People just don’t die, it feels horrible. Not like any other BF I have played. > > And now I know why. I’ve been enjoying the game since you reverted the changes. I just thought I’d let you (developers) know. ---
**Author:** ![SgtStav](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@SgtStav](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/SgtStav)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 8:58am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/5-2-ttk-change-megathread/107409/174 "2020-03-24T08:58:00Z")
Yes and im wondering why the … you implemented the ttk nerf in the first place??? 3-5 months of work for nada, who should have been used on AC teambalance/community server work ---
**Author:** ![TFBisquit](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/f07891/32.png) [@TFBisquit](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/TFBisquit)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 9:24am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/5-2-ttk-change-megathread/107409/175 "2020-03-24T09:24:00Z")
Still not many sar users, the rest also still mediocre. No identity for most weapons. I didn’t like 5.2.2, and I don’t like this one either. In the weapon of choice poll I voted stg1-5 but it isn’t even my go-to weapon. Just that the rest appeal even less. Yeah recon weapons do better, though they were untouched in those 5.2 patches. ---
**Author:** ![kid\_n4pper](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/cab0a1/32.png) [@kid\_n4pper](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/kid_n4pper)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 12:59pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/5-2-ttk-change-megathread/107409/176 "2020-03-24T12:59:00Z")
Bottom line is the devs have let down the players. After launch they tried changing the TTK/TTD and there was a lot of backlash, so they reverted it back. Which was an admirable move on their part. Now again they have gone ahead and changed it despite the fact that the majority of players were against it. The game is in a horrible state and it’s really not fun to play anymore, I don’t understand why they forced this TTK change when there are so many other major issues surrounding the game. Okay maybe some people like the new TTK, so have 2 different playlists. It’s not that hard! Open your eyes realize that the majority of players want the original values back. I’ve been playing the Battlefield games since the Original Battlefield, only one I didn’t get was 2142 since it didn’t appeal to me. I’ve had a lot of respect for EA/Dice since I was a kid despite the EA = bad bandwagon, however if this is what the future of the Battlefield series is going to be like I believe I’m done supporting ya’ll. Open your eyes guys? wtf are you doing, you’re killing a beautiful game you’ve put so much effort into creating. There’s cheaters having free reign, bugs, crashes.. yet you choose to focus on TTK.. what a joke ---
**Author:** ![EA\_Tom](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/ea_tom/32/106237_2.png) [@EA\_Tom](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/EA_Tom)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 2:44pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/5-2-ttk-change-megathread/107409/177 "2020-03-24T14:44:00Z")
Hey all, As we’ve moved on to Patch 6.0 and beyond, we’ll close threads related to 5.0 discussion so we can keep it relevant to current content. Thanks for all your comments and feedback along the way! -Tom [Previous page](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/5-2-ttk-change-megathread/107409.md?page=8)