# Complete Revert of 5.2 isn't happening. Thanks DICE for seeing Reason. **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 10, 2019, 3:38am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/complete-revert-of-5-2-isnt-happening-thanks-dice-for-seeing-reason/107443 "2019-12-10T03:38:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![VincentNZ](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/v/ce7236/32.png) [@VincentNZ](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/VincentNZ)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 1:56pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/complete-revert-of-5-2-isnt-happening-thanks-dice-for-seeing-reason/107443/61 "2019-12-10T13:56:00Z")
> [@spartanx169x](#): > > How many weapons does a player need to have fun? Really. How many? I find one or two in each and I’m good. So really how many is enough? That is assuming each player analyses his play and sticks with the optimal gun for his playstyle and is also not interested in playing anything else. This however is not the case. Noone in this game is educated enough to do this, thanks to DICE, and while many players simply stick to a gun they feel comfortable with, many others have different motivations. Many players play weapons for iconicness, hence the STG44 was overused although it was the worst weapon in the Assault class. Many players like the Sniper playstyle, hence they played the BAs, although BACs are universally better and the SLRs were way more easier to use for the average player. Many players want to play new weapons and try out new content, or follow other random goals and motivations, like doing assignments, golden every weapon, or other personal challenges. I, myself play every weapon to the mastery dogtag, so even though I know my way around my playstyle and the game stats, I am not playing optimally, nor do I want or need to. However this update makes all of that so much harder it is close to unbearable, while the sole purpose was to encourage the use of a wider weapon variety. Which can be done in a thousand ways and nothing has to do with changing TTK and make whole classes unviable. ---
**Author:** ![CHAMMOND1992](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@CHAMMOND1992](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/CHAMMOND1992)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 2:00pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/complete-revert-of-5-2-isnt-happening-thanks-dice-for-seeing-reason/107443/62 "2019-12-10T14:00:00Z")
> [@BURGERKRIEG](#): > > I think we should wait and see. Obviously there needs to be more tweaks to individual weapons, but in general it’s a good thing. > > I don’t see why this is any different from when a year into BF1 they changed the TTK to make it appeal to the more hardcore players. Now those hardcore players don’t want the exact same thing happening to BFV to allow access to the game for casual players who have been shut out of this game for a year? > > BF1 wasn’t a fav of mine at all, but it was a massive success. I now see that cutting out the fans of that game so completely was a mistake. > > Battlefield needs to be balanced so that it can accommodate both camps. Massive success due to COD flopping that year and after launch a huge player drop off started. ---
**Author:** ![OskooI\_007](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/oskooi_007/32/103046_2.png) [@OskooI\_007](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/OskooI_007)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 2:16pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/complete-revert-of-5-2-isnt-happening-thanks-dice-for-seeing-reason/107443/63 "2019-12-10T14:16:00Z")
People keep asking, “Why is DICE making these changes”? The answer is money. BFV’s player population is really low and Live Service profits are drying up. Players who are happy with BFV’s hardcore gameplay, will say players leaving has nothing to do with: - Punishing players with low health and ammo through attrition. - Getting insta killed by players you can’t see camping in a bushes with MMGs. - Poor visibility due to DICE scaling the player models smaller than they’ve ever been in Battlefield’s history. Nope, they’ll say all the players left due to bugs and lack of content. Even though players are more willing to play a buggy game if the gameplay is fun (BF4), and highly popular games like Counter-Strike have had the same maps for years yet retains it’s player population. Nope, It can’t possibly be the gameplay that turned the majority of players off and caused BFV’s player count to tumble. ---
**Author:** ![BURGERKRIEG](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@BURGERKRIEG](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/BURGERKRIEG)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 2:34pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/complete-revert-of-5-2-isnt-happening-thanks-dice-for-seeing-reason/107443/64 "2019-12-10T14:34:00Z")
> [@CHAMMOND1992](#): > > > [@BURGERKRIEG](#): > > > > I think we should wait and see. Obviously there needs to be more tweaks to individual weapons, but in general it’s a good thing. > > > > I don’t see why this is any different from when a year into BF1 they changed the TTK to make it appeal to the more hardcore players. Now those hardcore players don’t want the exact same thing happening to BFV to allow access to the game for casual players who have been shut out of this game for a year? > > > > BF1 wasn’t a fav of mine at all, but it was a massive success. I now see that cutting out the fans of that game so completely was a mistake. > > > > Battlefield needs to be balanced so that it can accommodate both camps. > > Massive success due to COD flopping that year and after launch a huge player drop off started. Yes I know. I hated BF1. I raged against BF1 and how casual it was and when people pointed out how successful it was I would say that mainly it was because of COD backlash. I wanted the TTK changed and got into the game more after 2.0. Now having 5.2 added to BFV to allow those BF1 guys a way back into something they loved is only fair. ---
**Author:** ![CptStonecock](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/b487fb/32.png) [@CptStonecock](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/CptStonecock)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 2:44pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/complete-revert-of-5-2-isnt-happening-thanks-dice-for-seeing-reason/107443/65 "2019-12-10T14:44:00Z")
> [@llPhantom\_Limbll](#): > > (Quote) > I’m playing this game since alpha so I’ve literally seen everything. Yet I don’t mind the changes. Stop being full of elitism please. I dont think you know what elitism even means, but resorting to personal attacks just proves my point. Do DICE pay you for these fanatical attempts at defending obvious moneygrabbing changes? ---
**Author:** ![SgtStav](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@SgtStav](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/SgtStav)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 2:49pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/complete-revert-of-5-2-isnt-happening-thanks-dice-for-seeing-reason/107443/66 "2019-12-10T14:49:00Z")
Worst patch in bf history ---
**Author:** ![VincentNZ](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/v/ce7236/32.png) [@VincentNZ](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/VincentNZ)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 2:49pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/complete-revert-of-5-2-isnt-happening-thanks-dice-for-seeing-reason/107443/67 "2019-12-10T14:49:00Z")
> [@OskooI\_007](#): > > People keep asking, “Why is DICE making these changes”? > > The answer is money. BFV’s player population is really low and Live Service profits are drying up. > > Players who are happy with BFV’s hardcore gameplay, will say players leaving has nothing to do with: > > - Punishing players with low health and ammo through attrition. > > - Getting insta killed by players you can’t see camping in a bushes with MMGs. > > - Poor visibility due to DICE scaling the player models smaller than they’ve ever been in Battlefield’s history. > > Nope, they’ll say all the players left due to bugs and lack of content. > > Even though players are more willing to play a buggy game if the gameplay is fun (BF4), and highly popular games like Counter-Strike have had the same maps for years yet retains it’s player population. > > Nope, It can’t possibly be the gameplay that’s turned the majority of players off and caused BFV’s player count to tumble. None of your examples is tied to TTK. . - if players leave because of Attrition, tweak or remove attrition - if you can’t see camping MMGs in bushes, make them be able to go ADS - if visibility is the issue than make it better via spotting and removal of visual clutter/intense lighting changes etc. - if you want to fine-tune ranges, then make spread relevant again and/or suppression . And no, people are not willing to play a “buggy game” like BF4, playercount there dropped fast and was sold rather poorly, in comparison. BF1 sold really well and dropped insanely fast, too. BFV sold bad and dropped harder still. BF4 managed to increase it’s playercount in the middle of the dev-cycle and in the run-up of BF1. Players leave for a thousand different reasons, and gameplay is a part of it, sure enough. Gameplay is also a reason why people keep playing. Perceived lack of content or a bugged game is not however something where players say, “Well, I like my weekly dose of hats and gasmasks thank you, and I do not want my server rotations cluttered with maps, so thank you for delaying it three months. Also the constant 45 fps really make me move tactically around the perimeter. After this round I will surely also play a round of Squad Firestorm, with the new friends I met in last week’s Grind Servers, as Duos is too stressful for me and then we will have a relaxed session of Coop, which really immerses me into WWII.” ---
**Author:** ![ShadoWawker](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@ShadoWawker](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/ShadoWawker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 3:05pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/complete-revert-of-5-2-isnt-happening-thanks-dice-for-seeing-reason/107443/68 "2019-12-10T15:05:00Z")
These changes seem reasonable for the most part and the intent behind them is good. However implementation on certain guns and classes was poor so a lot of adjusting is necessary to make them not feel so weak in their intended ranges ---
**Author:** ![llPhantom\_Limbll](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/llphantom_limbll/32/102656_2.png) [@llPhantom\_Limbll](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/llPhantom_Limbll)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/complete-revert-of-5-2-isnt-happening-thanks-dice-for-seeing-reason/107443/69 "2019-12-10T15:06:00Z")
> [@cptgaben](#): > > > [@llPhantom\_Limbll](#): > > > > (Quote) > > I’m playing this game since alpha so I’ve literally seen everything. Yet I don’t mind the changes. Stop being full of elitism please. > > I dont think you know what elitism even means, but resorting to personal attacks just proves my point. > > Do DICE pay you for these fanatical attempts at defending obvious moneygrabbing changes? I love how you keep coming with mindless accusations only based on simple thing as “stop liking what I don’t like”. Isn’t that an elitism? But I just repeat myself once again “adapt or stay upset”. ---
**Author:** ![CHAMMOND1992](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@CHAMMOND1992](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/CHAMMOND1992)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 3:07pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/complete-revert-of-5-2-isnt-happening-thanks-dice-for-seeing-reason/107443/70 "2019-12-10T15:07:00Z")
Not to mention BF4 was the only next generation BF at the time. BFV flops and there’s two previous iterations of BF to return to. ---
**Author:** ![CptStonecock](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/b487fb/32.png) [@CptStonecock](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/CptStonecock)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 3:29pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/complete-revert-of-5-2-isnt-happening-thanks-dice-for-seeing-reason/107443/71 "2019-12-10T15:29:00Z")
> [@llPhantom\_Limbll](#): > > > [@cptgaben](#): > > > > > [@llPhantom\_Limbll](#): > > > > > > (Quote) > > > I’m playing this game since alpha so I’ve literally seen everything. Yet I don’t mind the changes. Stop being full of elitism please. > > > > I dont think you know what elitism even means, but resorting to personal attacks just proves my point. > > > > Do DICE pay you for these fanatical attempts at defending obvious moneygrabbing changes? > > I love how you keep coming with mindless accusations only based on simple thing as “stop liking what I don’t like”. Isn’t that an elitism? > But I just repeat myself once again “adapt or stay upset”. How you can spend so much time on forums just being toxic is beyond me, not gonna waste more of My time with you now. ---
**Author:** ![VincentNZ](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/v/ce7236/32.png) [@VincentNZ](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/VincentNZ)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 3:34pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/complete-revert-of-5-2-isnt-happening-thanks-dice-for-seeing-reason/107443/72 "2019-12-10T15:34:00Z")
> [@NLBartmaN](#): > > > [@Hawxxeye](#): > > > > > [@wasp9166](#): > > > > > > [https://www.reddit.com/r/BattlefieldV/comments/e8iiq2/this\_week\_in\_battlefield\_v\_december\_9\_community/facd0xg/](https://www.reddit.com/r/BattlefieldV/comments/e8iiq2/this_week_in_battlefield_v_december_9_community/facd0xg/) > > > > > > looks like it’s going over well, welp, i’m done with ea/dice , never again > > > > Damn that reminded me what a cesspool of karma farming reddit is. Yuck. > > Yeah, the hyping and karma farming is just terrible, no chance for an actual discussion or objective views, comments not matching the hype will get downvoted to invisible before someone even can read it. > > Content creators know this and just add extra fire to get views and interaction (and with that money) on their channel. > > It really surprises me, Dice and EA have not yet removed some of them from their “gamechangers” program and still use some of them to share information or promote certain things. > > I am just glad they use different information and stats for game development and changes and not that trash. Yeah that is assuming that survey data and their telemetry is not equally flawed. The problems in statistics always start as soon as people try to analyze the meaning of numbers. The numbers themselves do not lie, people interpreting and justifying them do. So people do not like this game and they leave or do not keep playing it for long. Isn’t the reason highly individual and usually a conglomeration of issues? You have been complaining about this game since the reveal trailer, this is about the first time you ever had something positive to say, yet you have stuck around for 13 months. So why haven’t you left, or even bought the game, even though you said you would never do that, and kept playing even though you feel that every death you receive is a one-framer? I myself have little positive to say about the game, right from the start, too and I had whole months where I did not play, even though TTK was good TTD and generally my performance was serviceable. Yet my incentive now dropped even more than with the six week’s worth of cosmetic ToW and stuttering. ---
**Author:** ![llPhantom\_Limbll](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/llphantom_limbll/32/102656_2.png) [@llPhantom\_Limbll](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/llPhantom_Limbll)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 3:38pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/complete-revert-of-5-2-isnt-happening-thanks-dice-for-seeing-reason/107443/73 "2019-12-10T15:38:00Z")
> [@cptgaben](#): > > > [@llPhantom\_Limbll](#): > > > > > [@cptgaben](#): > > > > > > > [@llPhantom\_Limbll](#): > > > > > > > > (Quote) > > > > I’m playing this game since alpha so I’ve literally seen everything. Yet I don’t mind the changes. Stop being full of elitism please. > > > > > > I dont think you know what elitism even means, but resorting to personal attacks just proves my point. > > > > > > Do DICE pay you for these fanatical attempts at defending obvious moneygrabbing changes? > > > > I love how you keep coming with mindless accusations only based on simple thing as “stop liking what I don’t like”. Isn’t that an elitism? > > But I just repeat myself once again “adapt or stay upset”. > > How you can spend so much time on forums just being toxic is beyond me, not gonna waste more of My time with you now. So now is it me now who is to blame for everything because I disagree with your “reasons”? Grow up, not everything in this life goes according to your vision. ---
**Author:** ![jroggs](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/jroggs/32/106829_2.png) [@jroggs](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/jroggs)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 4:34pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/complete-revert-of-5-2-isnt-happening-thanks-dice-for-seeing-reason/107443/74 "2019-12-10T16:34:00Z")
It’s cute that you guys defending this godawful mistake of a patch are pretending to be the majority. I haven’t seen one single poll or community where this is the case, here or otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![jroggs](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/jroggs/32/106829_2.png) [@jroggs](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/jroggs)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 4:45pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/complete-revert-of-5-2-isnt-happening-thanks-dice-for-seeing-reason/107443/75 "2019-12-10T16:45:00Z")
> [@llPhantom\_Limbll](#): > > Adapt or stay upset. That’s as much as you get following the official response. Adapt to what? Having significantly less fun? My stats have only gone up since 5.2 dropped. My enjoyment has plummeted. ---
**Author:** ![GeneralXIV](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/generalxiv/32/106704_2.png) [@GeneralXIV](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/GeneralXIV)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/complete-revert-of-5-2-isnt-happening-thanks-dice-for-seeing-reason/107443/76 "2019-12-10T17:43:00Z")
To be honest, I’ve never really felt to have a good experience in Battlefield V. In the beta, I felt to die instantly much of the time but I heard there was a problem with one-frame deaths and I assumed it was a problem they would fix. But as I purchased the game, nothing felt to have changed and I was still dying instantly much of the time. I kinda realized it was a problem with the game itself, because nothing has ever fixed it. When they closed down the servers, they actually made it worse (maybe because of others playing outside their best region? Idk), and most things in the game were instant death, but especially SMGs, faster ARs and MMGs. People would always “overshoot”, firing farrr more bullets than they had to because of the difference between how fast you died and how fast you were killed. I’ve looked at gameplay footage Ive recorded and sometimes Ive been killed in 4 frames. At 30fps on a PS4, that would mean I died within like, what, 0.1 seconds? Less than an eye-blink. But apparently the gameplay in Battlefield V is perfect and universally loved. Imo, it was more broken and frustrating. Add that to visibility issues where you could walk by enemies without seeing them and be stood a few meters away and see nothing and it just didn’t work. DICE have clearly realized this was an issue - they have tried twice now to improve things and each time the community has reacted poorly - before they have even tried it. They give themselves no time to adjust or recognize that other people may not have the perfect experience with the game that they have. And every time, I just feel disappointed because I know the game will be reverted back or changed so the necessary changes don’t change as much as they should. Ill be honest, if I was a game developer I would probably hate my own community and want another one. Since the game was really… announced? the community has been very very negative, quite aggressive and quite self-centered. With the TTK changes, it’s like the world is ending… when a game is just something trivial and designed for amusement. To be honest, this patch hasn’t really covered everything I want it to, but I think it’s a start at least. I hope they maintain its standard and just make minor changes rather than reverting everything completely. This patch has definitely been an improvement imo. The only bad thing I have to say is that the ZH-29 doesn’t feel as fun as it used to, because I love that gun, but idk if its my imagination or not, but everything else seems fine 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![hawkseye17](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/hawkseye17/32/102181_2.png) [@hawkseye17](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/hawkseye17)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 5:50pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/complete-revert-of-5-2-isnt-happening-thanks-dice-for-seeing-reason/107443/77 "2019-12-10T17:50:00Z")
You try to use the FG-42 and dare tell me that is anywhere near ok. ---
**Author:** ![Lotusninja\_Akira](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/lotusninja_akira/32/102666_2.png) [@Lotusninja\_Akira](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Lotusninja_Akira)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/complete-revert-of-5-2-isnt-happening-thanks-dice-for-seeing-reason/107443/78 "2019-12-10T18:17:00Z")
Players need to realise that it’s Time to Death many seems to have issues with. It’s different from Time to Kill and faulty lies somewhere in “netcoding” can’t handle low TTK (?) i.e how damage is received from player B shooting player A (You), OOR players, latency differences in general, multiple players shooting you at once without you even realising it, not having 100Hp at the beginning of gunfight etc. . I am an amateur so I don’t go into deeper explanations but I know fixing TTK isn’t the case it’s band-aid fix 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GRAW2ROBZ](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/graw2robz/32/102113_2.png) [@GRAW2ROBZ](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/GRAW2ROBZ)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 6:23pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/complete-revert-of-5-2-isnt-happening-thanks-dice-for-seeing-reason/107443/79 "2019-12-10T18:23:00Z")
I could care less one way or the other for 5.2 ttk. But when it takes a lot of bullets for some broken guns if people decide to be glutton for punishment and use it. They will wait for RSP hardcore if it ever comes. But with no progression for TOW’s and chapter xp then they may move on since RSP is D.O.A. as well. . I know I was having a blast when pacific arrived and I started using support exclusively with the bren and 3 tank mines to pop tanks and repair tanks. But now I wont be using support at all. So most likely all tankers wont be getting repairs other then from their own R2D2. Medic is down to like type 100,mp40 or jungle carbine but why bother reviving and just revive your own squad as recon or assault. That’s where i’m at. ---
**Author:** ![Foxassassin](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Foxassassin](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Foxassassin)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 6:23pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/complete-revert-of-5-2-isnt-happening-thanks-dice-for-seeing-reason/107443/80 "2019-12-10T18:23:00Z")
> [@TEKNOCODE](#): > > > [@cptgaben](#): > > > > You shouldnt have to “adapt” for a game thats supposed to be for fun and thats been out for over a year now… > > This is my issue. Don’t completely overhaul gameplay mechanics a year after release. Dice did it with bf1 and I opposed that change too. ## [Link to section: It’s like people forget this is the second year.](#its-like-people-forget-this-is-the-second-year-1)It’s like people forget this is the second year. ## [Link to section: The first year they tried this -exact- same thing with just as much negative response](#the-first-year-they-tried-this-exact-same-thing-with-just-as-much-negative-response-2)The first year they tried this -exact- same thing with just as much negative response Second year they try again with even worse,sweeping changes, and even more screwed up execution. And people are even more upset… [Previous page](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/complete-revert-of-5-2-isnt-happening-thanks-dice-for-seeing-reason/107443.md?page=3) [Next page](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/complete-revert-of-5-2-isnt-happening-thanks-dice-for-seeing-reason/107443.md?page=5)