# (Developer Comment) Grenade Resupply, Ammo 2.0 and What's Next **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 17, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/developer-comment-grenade-resupply-ammo-2-0-and-whats-next/102932 "2017-03-17T20:17:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![DingoKillr](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/dingokillr/32/101728_2.png) [@DingoKillr](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/DingoKillr)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 3:06am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/developer-comment-grenade-resupply-ammo-2-0-and-whats-next/102932/141 "2017-03-20T03:06:00Z")
> [@Ram1c](#): > > When you see levelcap speaking in a respectable manner you know it’s a bad idea lol. After hearing that I might actually earn a little respect for him (probably not). > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lblP2G\_KNs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lblP2G_KNs) There was a few comments levelcap got right and some wrong. Wrong it is an Ammo system that is all ammo not just Grenade and Gadgets. Right people should provide good analytical feedback not the rubbish we are getting now. “No magical appearing grenades” and “it’s not realistic” - very thought out responses, 555 “Scrap auto-regen use my idea of sitting on a crate for 30s” - tried and failed in BF4. “Scrap auto-regen use my idea of having to magical wait 30s before you can approach a crate” - don’t see how outcome is different to sitting on a crate. “Scrap auto-regen use my idea of having to press a key for 30s over a crate” - can’t do anything else so a team mate needs to watch your back. Now you have to wait for the teammate to resupply. “It reduces teamwork” - my favorite argument. Teamwork that I think is also missing from BF. - Vehicle should have a full crew to operate and the drivers of tanks should have no cannon. - Vehicle should be required to go back to base and have a Support press R to resupply them. - Vehicle should be disabled when damage and require a mechanic to fix. - Infantry should be disabled when damage and require a Medic to heal. - Medic health and revive gadgets have limit use and need Support - Only Scouts can spot. I am sure I have missed other active teamwork. How about instead we let people play the game instead of having to search for Support and do a War dance to just get some ammo. Yes auto-regen will help lone wolfing where some guy sneaks around the flank and caps a flag but is this not a type team work, it also helps on crowded maps where if you team has active support dropping crates your team is going to have about 3.5 times as more bullets, gadgets and grenade, then the other team without Support even if they respawn more often. DICE also meant ion Persistent timers thru death and overcharge. ---
**Author:** ![x\_Undaunted\_x](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/x_undaunted_x/32/104094_2.png) [@x\_Undaunted\_x](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/x_Undaunted_x)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/developer-comment-grenade-resupply-ammo-2-0-and-whats-next/102932/142 "2017-03-22T17:12:00Z")
> [@theReuster](#): > > > [@x\_Undaunted\_x](#): > > > > > [@theReuster](#): > > > > > > > [@69GTOJudge](#): > > > > > > > > > [@theReuster](#): > > > > > > > > > > Why is automatic health regeneration ok but auto ammo regen not? I did not like the new system when I heard about it but that explanation makes me believe they’re working on things with a genuine desire to make the game better. They haven’t abandoned the need for the support class, they’re changing it, and change is good, donkey. > > > > > > > > Who says Automatic Health Regen is ok? Certainly not everyone > > > > > > Everyone that bought the game and gave the developer their money? If giving someone your money isn’t an indication of support I don’t know what is. > > > > Giving a developer your money does not equal agreeing with possible future changes, especially when you had no clue ideas such as this were being considered. > > > > Had I known DICE was thinking about doing something like this, I would have saved my money on BF1 and premium. I purchased the game based on the mechanics I experienced in the beta. They were good enough to warrant my purchase. I even expect some minor things to change about the game such as weapon balance or grenade’s (in)ability to be spammed. However, I DON’T expect a base fundamental mechanic such as this to be changed 6 months and 1 DLC after I purchased the game all in the name of “Well… We think this is better!” I did not purchase BF1 - The Neverending Beta where they want to try new ideas. If this is how DICE plans to do future games, I’m out. Not a threat, just a fact because I’m not going to keep throwing money into what I consider to be a bait and switch move. When I purchase a game, I expect the base mechanics to remain the same through the entire life of said game. > > You probably did agree by installing the game and clicking ok to the user agreement, but I understand what you’re saying, you feel wronged. Oh, I’m absolutely certain that the user agreement has a clause to protect EA and DICE over something like this. I know there’s probably no legal leg to stand on and, even if there was, I’m not going to waste time or more money trying to fight this over $100. However, it’s not a good business practice and I (and potentially others) will remember this for future products they release. Between all of the products and premiums from BC2 forward, I’ve probably invested somewhere over $600 in the battlefield and battlefront franchises. While that may be a drop in the bucket, if enough people share this sentiment, it could cause some form of financial damage. If enough people vote with their wallets, I guarantee DICE and EA would do an about face. The bottom line is money talks. ---
**Author:** ![theReuster](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/258eb7/32.png) [@theReuster](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/theReuster)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 7:05pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/developer-comment-grenade-resupply-ammo-2-0-and-whats-next/102932/143 "2017-03-22T19:05:00Z")
> [@x\_Undaunted\_x](#): > > > [@theReuster](#): > > > > > [@x\_Undaunted\_x](#): > > > > > > > [@theReuster](#): > > > > > > > > > [@69GTOJudge](#): > > > > > > > > > > > [@theReuster](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is automatic health regeneration ok but auto ammo regen not? I did not like the new system when I heard about it but that explanation makes me believe they’re working on things with a genuine desire to make the game better. They haven’t abandoned the need for the support class, they’re changing it, and change is good, donkey. > > > > > > > > > > Who says Automatic Health Regen is ok? Certainly not everyone > > > > > > > > Everyone that bought the game and gave the developer their money? If giving someone your money isn’t an indication of support I don’t know what is. > > > > > > Giving a developer your money does not equal agreeing with possible future changes, especially when you had no clue ideas such as this were being considered. > > > > > > Had I known DICE was thinking about doing something like this, I would have saved my money on BF1 and premium. I purchased the game based on the mechanics I experienced in the beta. They were good enough to warrant my purchase. I even expect some minor things to change about the game such as weapon balance or grenade’s (in)ability to be spammed. However, I DON’T expect a base fundamental mechanic such as this to be changed 6 months and 1 DLC after I purchased the game all in the name of “Well… We think this is better!” I did not purchase BF1 - The Neverending Beta where they want to try new ideas. If this is how DICE plans to do future games, I’m out. Not a threat, just a fact because I’m not going to keep throwing money into what I consider to be a bait and switch move. When I purchase a game, I expect the base mechanics to remain the same through the entire life of said game. > > > > You probably did agree by installing the game and clicking ok to the user agreement, but I understand what you’re saying, you feel wronged. > > Oh, I’m absolutely certain that the user agreement has a clause to protect EA and DICE over something like this. I know there’s probably no legal leg to stand on and, even if there was, I’m not going to waste time or more money trying to fight this over $100. However, it’s not a good business practice and I (and potentially others) will remember this for future products they release. Between all of the products and premiums from BC2 forward, I’ve probably invested somewhere over $600 in the battlefield and battlefront franchises. While that may be a drop in the bucket, if enough people share this sentiment, it could cause some form of financial damage. If enough people vote with their wallets, I guarantee DICE and EA would do an about face. The bottom line is money talks. That was the original point I was trying to allude to, giving them your money amounts to supporting them. In a consumer world your dollar is everything and companies can’t exist without it (for the most part). As a consumer we make decisions about who gets our dollars, and in turn, who we end up supporting. But it is certainly unfortunate if the goal posts change after you’ve paid up. ---
**Author:** ![HardAimedKid](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/hardaimedkid/32/102174_2.png) [@HardAimedKid](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/HardAimedKid)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 7:22pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/developer-comment-grenade-resupply-ammo-2-0-and-whats-next/102932/144 "2017-03-22T19:22:00Z")
Guys guys. It’s okay. You get one trip wire per minute as a scout and assaults replenish in half that time and have a +2 off the box and a 16.7% increase in impact damage, what could possibly go wrong here? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ILoveBF2Fin](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/ilovebf2fin/32/102294_2.png) [@ILoveBF2Fin](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/ILoveBF2Fin)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 11:07pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/developer-comment-grenade-resupply-ammo-2-0-and-whats-next/102932/145 "2017-03-22T23:07:00Z")
Just wanted to post an update here. Apparently they finally made it so that in CTE you unlock everything like in BF4. Im so happy right now! Can try out these guns without spending tens of hours unlocking them. Along with it comes some interesting things though [https://gyazo.com/bff2f16a85f573e340a1785f66683315](https://gyazo.com/bff2f16a85f573e340a1785f66683315) Also got all the melee weapons and all the skins for every gun 🙂 [https://gyazo.com/bb5bbb25b899df303676ed992d2c030d](https://gyazo.com/bb5bbb25b899df303676ed992d2c030d) Really loving the Selbstlader 06 Sniper so far. I believe its the same as the Mondragon Sniper where you dont actually put up a glint. If you can get yourself into positions where you can place a bipod in a good place, you’ll do quite well with this gun. Really extends the range of the 1906. ---
**Author:** ![lh20122012](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/lh20122012/32/102637_2.png) [@lh20122012](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/lh20122012)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 11:23pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/developer-comment-grenade-resupply-ammo-2-0-and-whats-next/102932/146 "2017-03-22T23:23:00Z")
> [@bleachee](#): > > A grenade mechanic that is reasonable for 64 players spread across 7 flags in Conquest can be intolerable for 64 players fighting over one flag in Operations. That’s what is happening now. It’s partly the peril of having one balance model for two game modes at the opposite extreme of player spatial concentration. This is the core problem with aircraft now too. This^ is a solid gold post right here. DICE is going all Rube Goldberg on this grenade and they’ve totally failed to realize that balancing needs to be different across modes. (Also across platforms.) ---
**Author:** ![KakeHC](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/kakehc/32/102458_2.png) [@KakeHC](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/KakeHC)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 7:03am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/developer-comment-grenade-resupply-ammo-2-0-and-whats-next/102932/147 "2017-03-23T07:03:00Z")
> [@lh20122012](#): > > > [@bleachee](#): > > > > A grenade mechanic that is reasonable for 64 players spread across 7 flags in Conquest can be intolerable for 64 players fighting over one flag in Operations. That’s what is happening now. It’s partly the peril of having one balance model for two game modes at the opposite extreme of player spatial concentration. This is the core problem with aircraft now too. > > This^ is a solid gold post right here. DICE is going all Rube Goldberg on this grenade and they’ve totally failed to realize that balancing needs to be different across modes. (Also across platforms.) Conquest is the new test range. It sucks as a game mode so much especially after the stupid changes on ticket system. ---
**Author:** ![HardAimedKid](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/hardaimedkid/32/102174_2.png) [@HardAimedKid](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/HardAimedKid)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 1:33pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/developer-comment-grenade-resupply-ammo-2-0-and-whats-next/102932/148 "2017-03-23T13:33:00Z")
I think the only thing that can be done is everyone run support for a couple weeks and spam every type of explosive possible. As soon as the game starts everyone line up civil war style, don’t shoot each other though. We will all sit boxes down and just start chucking grenades. ---
**Author:** ![Khronikos](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/khronikos/32/102498_2.png) [@Khronikos](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Khronikos)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 10:53pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/developer-comment-grenade-resupply-ammo-2-0-and-whats-next/102932/149 "2017-03-23T22:53:00Z")
Yeah, let’s not go the opposite way and overnerf nades now to the point the whole game just becomes boring either. I have a feeling this team is just going to go crazy or something and put some kind of messed up 2 minute timer on nades with long box reloads as well. ---
**Author:** ![bran1986](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/bran1986/32/101405_2.png) [@bran1986](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/bran1986)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 11:01pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/developer-comment-grenade-resupply-ammo-2-0-and-whats-next/102932/150 "2017-03-23T23:01:00Z")
> [@Khronikos](#): > > Yeah, let’s not go the opposite way and overnerf nades now to the point the whole game just becomes boring either. I have a feeling this team is just going to go crazy or something and put some kind of messed up 2 minute timer on nades with long box reloads as well. they won’t do that since a lot of the map designs make grenades a necessity. ---
**Author:** ![Gun51ing3r](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/gun51ing3r/32/102143_2.png) [@Gun51ing3r](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Gun51ing3r)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 10:34am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/developer-comment-grenade-resupply-ammo-2-0-and-whats-next/102932/151 "2017-03-24T10:34:00Z")
Anybody know how the new resupply mechanic works with differences to support pouches v crates? ---
**Author:** ![DingoKillr](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/dingokillr/32/101728_2.png) [@DingoKillr](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/DingoKillr)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 10:48am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/developer-comment-grenade-resupply-ammo-2-0-and-whats-next/102932/152 "2017-03-24T10:48:00Z")
> [@Gun51ing3r](#): > > Anybody know how the new resupply mechanic works with differences to support pouches v crates? Ammo Pouches in CTE have no effect on Ammo 2.0. I believe DICE is trying to get the crates timing/workings before adding another variable. ---
**Author:** ![Gun51ing3r](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/gun51ing3r/32/102143_2.png) [@Gun51ing3r](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Gun51ing3r)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 10:51am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/developer-comment-grenade-resupply-ammo-2-0-and-whats-next/102932/153 "2017-03-24T10:51:00Z")
> [@DingoKillr](#): > > > [@Gun51ing3r](#): > > > > Anybody know how the new resupply mechanic works with differences to support pouches v crates? > > Ammo Pouches in CTE have no effect on Ammo 2.0. I believe DICE is trying to get the crates timing/workings before adding another variable. Thanks, I hope pouches will though as they will become pointless otherwise. I’ll give CTE a go later, I only updated it last night. ---
**Author:** ![RianaPiker](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/r/ea5d25/32.png) [@RianaPiker](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/RianaPiker)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2017, 4:23am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/developer-comment-grenade-resupply-ammo-2-0-and-whats-next/102932/154 "2017-03-26T04:23:00Z")
All you have to do is one grenade per life. Want to resupply? then players have to sit near the crate for 38 or 40 whatever seconds, or just get rid of the resupply mechanic all together, it’s simple!!! ---
**Author:** ![Joker3014](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@Joker3014](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Joker3014)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 4:42pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/developer-comment-grenade-resupply-ammo-2-0-and-whats-next/102932/155 "2017-04-25T16:42:00Z")
> [@ChickNFoot](#): > > Grenade Resupply, Ammo 2.0, and What’s Next. > [https://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield\_live/comments/5zytvl/grenade\_resupply\_ammo\_20\_and\_whats\_next/](https://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield_live/comments/5zytvl/grenade_resupply_ammo_20_and_whats_next/) > > **Below is the Developer Comment and a reply from the link above** > > "The grenade resupply changes have been quite controversial, and I’ve seen a lot of posts asking “What was DICE thinking!?” So I’m here to answer that for you, and invite to discussion. > > The grenade changes that we tested a few weeks ago in CTE and recently released with Battlefield 1 They Shall Not Pass are a very small part of a much larger system we’ve been calling Ammo 2.0 internally. > > What is Ammo 2.0? Ammo 2.0 is a complete rework to the resupply mechanics of Battlefield 1 that at its core is intended to increase the utility of the Support class. It should always be helpful to have a Support with ammo gadgets around. As side effects to this system we also get much more freedom and levers to tune how often gadgets can be used beyond just max ammo count and resupply time. > > What are our goals with Ammo 2.0? > > Ammo gadgets should always be helpful, and increase the abilities of other gadgets in the short term, even immediately after spawning in, not just after they’ve expended all of their uses. > > Other gadgets should not become completely useless once their ammo is expended, but should be stronger when supported by ammo. > > Resupplying must be limited to prevent overuse of gadgets, but should not require players to sit on a box for an excessive amount of time, else redeploying with full ammo becomes a more attractive and efficient option than actually resupplying. > > How do we plan on solving those issues with Ammo 2.0? The core of Ammo 2.0 is a shift from ammo gadgets being the only way to resupply, to a cooldown based system with ammo gadgets modifying cooldowns. The cooldown based resupply shifts the benefit of the ammo box from long term to short term. With the cooldown giving small amounts of ammo over the long term, we can reduce the starting ammo of many gadgets, making having ammo most important during a fight instead of after. In many ways the Support’s ammo gadgets will become something like the offensive counterpart of the Medic’s healing gadgets. Passive health regen will allow a player to survive without a Medic in the long term, but in the short term the Medic gadgets are critical to winning fights. We want support to multiply the effectiveness of other classes. For example, 2 Assaults supported with ammo should be better at taking out tanks than 3 Assaults without Support. Bringing a proper squad composition with complementary roles should be stronger than brute force stacking a single class. > > Cooldown based gadgets are nothing new to the Battlefield series, a good portion of the gadgets in Battlefield 1 already use a cooldown or regenerating ammo, such as medkits, syringe, mortar, periscope, and more. With Ammo 2.0 we’ll be able to extend the benefits of the ammo box/pouch to these gadgets as well. So far you’ve seen two parts of the system, grenade cooldowns, and ammo box cooldown speedup. We’ve seen around a 7% decrease in grenade throws per second and grenade kills per minute across all base game maps since Battlefield 1 They Shall Not Pass was released. > > What’s next for Ammo 2.0 Lots more changes will be coming to CTE for testing. Here’s a preview of what we want to experiment with: > > The next thing coming to CTE will be a tuning pass on grenade timers and ammo box cooldown speedup. These changes will increase the time it takes to regen grenades without ammo, but also increase the strength of the ammo box buff. Resupply time with the ammo box will be mostly unchanged. > > Suppression hindering resupply. Much like passive healing and the medkit are already blocked by suppression, we’ll be extending that to resupplies as well. Incoming suppression will completely halt passive resupply, and will make resupply from ammo boxes take 50% longer. This should help reduce grenade use on infantry maps like Argonne, Verdun, and Vaux where players are often in combat, and where we also see the highest rates of grenade kills, without making grenade resupply painfully long on larger maps where grenades are much less of a problem. > > Expanding Ammo 2.0 support to all gadgets. > > Adding Ammo Pouch support to Ammo 2.0. Our intent for the ammo pouch is to have it apply a “sticky” effect to the soldier who picks it up, giving him a similar cooldown reduction to the ammo box on his gadgets for a short time. > > Testing persistent cooldowns. This would mean tracking ammo count through death. Players would always spawn with at least a minimum amount of ammo, but the only way to get back to maximum would be to wait for the cooldown, either waiting a long time, or quickly with the help of a Support. No more bypassing the need to resupply by dying or redeploying. > > Testing ammo overcharge. This would allow ammo gadgets to supply players past the normal maximum ammo for their gadgets. We can also allow progress towards the overcharge to tick up without the ammo box, then instantly apply it upon interacting with an ammo gadget. > > We are also looking at smoke grenades, and whether a single grenade covers enough area. We may tweak their effect to provide better cover from each grenade. > > Of course we are open to your feedback and suggestions, and would love to have a constructive discussion around Ammo 2.0 and the vision for it. Nothing is set in stone, and this is a great opportunity to influence the direction of the game." > > "Grenade timers for most types will be increasing pretty substantially. As an example the timer for Frags will be increasing from 36s to 49s. > > The crossbow and mortar have actually had part of Ammo 2.0 active on them since their introduction, they regenerate their ammo. Their timers will be updated as well to work with the new version of the ammo box." Stop the grenade recharge to fix spam, it’s ridiculous, reason there is a 7% decrease is because 30% left [Previous page](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/developer-comment-grenade-resupply-ammo-2-0-and-whats-next/102932.md?page=7)