# Medic weapons are garbage. And bipoted campers, the way this game is meant to be played? \[RANT\] **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 15, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/medic-weapons-are-garbage-and-bipoted-campers-the-way-this-game-is-meant-to-be-played-rant/105923 "2018-11-15T20:04:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![jaromarcoo](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/j/ebca7d/32.png) [@jaromarcoo](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/jaromarcoo)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 12:36pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/medic-weapons-are-garbage-and-bipoted-campers-the-way-this-game-is-meant-to-be-played-rant/105923/161 "2018-11-26T12:36:00Z")
> [@LEGATUS\_AUGUSTI](#): > > Because it’s not a 1vs1 at the beginning. It’s a dude you find in front, and the same dude is not minimally paying attention to you, till you start shooting at him and you catch his attention. And he shoots back. And kills. > > In that scenario you can outgun anyone with any medic weapon if they are taken by surprise. But in a 1vs1 in which the medic faces another class and both are ready to pull the trigger one against the other as in a western movie, the medic is always a dead man. > > I miss alot BF1. Medics there were perfect as multirole. Want to be aggressive to get a flag? Use Fedorov or Sweeper. Want to be versatile but accurate. Use Mondragon sniper or Selb 1916 marksman. You could decide how you wanted to play. And the medic you wanted to be. > > Now it’s like a mass medic charge in no mans land. "ohh a guy is shooting me from Mars with a Stag 44, i should hit back and let’s hope my bullets dont spread around like they were a shotgun just after 20 meters. > > Medic weapons just suck. Im sorry to say that. They would suck a little bit less if the class had more types of weapons like in BF1. Few for short and few others for medium range Hmm…memories of The Sweeper. ---
**Author:** ![VincentNZ](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/v/ce7236/32.png) [@VincentNZ](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/VincentNZ)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 1:13pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/medic-weapons-are-garbage-and-bipoted-campers-the-way-this-game-is-meant-to-be-played-rant/105923/162 "2018-11-26T13:13:00Z")
> [@xx\_Dante2k\_xx](#): > > > [@VincentNZ](#): > > > > > [@LEGATUS\_AUGUSTI](#): > > > > > > Then another thing i dont understand, is why the Suomi is considered mediocre in this game. If anyone has a minimum acknowledgement of militaria, he knows that Suomi was not only very accurate and powerful, but had also almost non existant recoil. Its on the same league of the Beretta MAB 38/A, but the latter is a bit lighter than Suomi. > > > > > > Suomi should be the best medical weapon by far from the list. Even Sten that was a single piece of iron easy to mass produce has better stats than that. Which is nonsense. > > > > The Suomi is better than the Sten. First off all you have 18 bullets more in the mag and a much higher ROF. With the SMGs using the same spread mechanic as in previous BF titles the Suomi also plays similar to a P90 of BF4. You are forced to tapfire it. The Sten however has miniscule recoil and poor accuracy leading to very unintuitive and unrewarding TTK. You should be bursting this weapon as well, but since your crosshair is on target this is unintuitive. So, for the average user, a Suomi is better than the Sten in almost all regards. > > Doesn’t the Soumi have a ton of recoil though ? I know smg are meant for close range but I have had some success at mid range with the sten. ## [Link to section: @LEGATUS\_AUGUSTI @Major\_Pungspark I did not see the reply until today. The stats are out now, you can examine them here: http://forum.symthic.com/battlefield-v-general-discussion/battlefield-v-technic](#legatus_augusti-major_pungspark-i-did-not-see-the-reply-until-today-the-stats-are-out-now-you-can-examine-them-here-httpforumsymthiccombattlefield-v-general-discussionbattlefield-v-technical-discussion11620-battlefield-5-release-weapon-stats-wip-crudepost339899-1)@LEGATUS\_AUGUSTI @Major_Pungspark I did not see the reply until today. The stats are out now, you can examine them here: [http://forum.symthic.com/battlefield-v-general-discussion/battlefield-v-technical-discussion/11620-battlefield-5-release-weapon-stats-wip-crude/#post339899](http://forum.symthic.com/battlefield-v-general-discussion/battlefield-v-technical-discussion/11620-battlefield-5-release-weapon-stats-wip-crude/#post339899) ## [Link to section: The important bits are the damage, spread and the spread increase, which seems, after a quick look, to be the same for all SMGs. So the only differentiating factor is the recoil. When I take a look at](#the-important-bits-are-the-damage-spread-and-the-spread-increase-which-seems-after-a-quick-look-to-be-the-same-for-all-smgs-so-the-only-differentiating-factor-is-the-recoil-when-i-take-a-look-at-my-stats-now-we-put-that-into-perspective-httpsbattlefieldtrackercombfvprofileoriginvincentnzweapons-my-average-accuracy-with-the-two-slow-firing-smgs-is-1870-while-with-the-suomi-it-is-1600-that-means-a-27-accuracy-difference-for-a-weapon-that-fires-30-faster-my-kpm-went-up-by-13ish-for-using-the-suomi-as-well-there-is-also-to-consider-that-with-50-bullets-and-such-a-high-rof-you-are-mor-inclined-to-just-hose-a-few-extra-down-the-street-or-for-overkill-decreasing-your-actual-engagement-accuracy-is-the-suomi-much-harder-to-control-yes-does-it-matter-not-really-what-matters-is-that-starting-from-02-base-spread-each-shot-applies-025-oer-sips-to-a-maximum-of-30-a-suomi-user-will-at-a-certain-point-be-overwhelmed-by-the-recoil-and-tapfire-causing-spread-to-decrease-a-sten-user-will-shoot-longer-bursts-because-of-controllable-recoil-but-therefore-increased-average-spread-that-is-before-any-specs-are-applied-accuracy-improving-specs-will-likely-work-the-same-for-all-smgs-since-the-stats-are-the-same-recoi-upgrades-might-be-percentage-based-meaning-that-reducing-the-horizontal-recoil-of-the-suomi-which-is-huge-might-be-more-rewarding-than-for-the-mp40-if-we-look-at-hipfire-were-recoil-is-not-much-of-an-issue-the-advantage-of-the-suomi-becomes-even-more-obvious-rof-trumps-all-2)The important bits are the damage, spread and the spread increase, which seems, after a quick look, to be the same for all SMGs. So the only differentiating factor is the recoil. When I take a look at my stats now we put that into perspective: [https://battlefieldtracker.com/bfv/profile/origin/vincentnz/weapons](https://battlefieldtracker.com/bfv/profile/origin/vincentnz/weapons) My average accuracy with the two slow-firing SMGs is 18,70%, while with the Suomi it is 16,00%, that means a 2,7% accuracy difference. For a weapon that fires 30% faster? My KPM went up by 13ish% for using the Suomi as well. There is also to consider that, with 50 bullets and such a high ROF, you are mor inclined to just hose a few extra down the street, or for overkill, decreasing your actual engagement accuracy. Is the Suomi much harder to control? Yes. Does it matter? Not really. What matters is that starting from 0.2 base spread, each shot applies 0.25 oer SIPS to a maximum of 3.0. A Suomi user will at a certain point be overwhelmed by the recoil, and tapfire, causing spread to decrease. A Sten user will shoot longer bursts, because of controllable recoil, but therefore increased average spread. That is before any specs are applied. Accuracy improving specs will likely work the same for all SMGs, since the stats are the same. Recoi upgrades might be percentage based, meaning that reducing the horizontal recoil of the Suomi (which is huge) might be more rewarding than for the MP40. If we look at hipfire, were recoil is not much of an issue, the advantage of the Suomi becomes even more obvious. ROF trumps all. As a conclusion: Weapons like the MP34, M40 and Sten have a hard stand against the Thompson, Suomi and MP28. I prefer weapon classes having the same damage stats and generally having the same stat foudnation, but weapons with those low ROFs have no place within the current SMG system and perform even worse when compared to other weapon classes. The best DICE could do is to balance spread increase individually for each SMG, similar to the BF4 system, where having weapons with different niches were actually be a thing. ---
**Author:** ![BeastlyVerse](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@BeastlyVerse](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/BeastlyVerse)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 2:31pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/medic-weapons-are-garbage-and-bipoted-campers-the-way-this-game-is-meant-to-be-played-rant/105923/163 "2018-11-26T14:31:00Z")
I miss my rsc and the old m1907 SL factory ☹ I used to always play as medic, but no longer in BF V ---
**Author:** ![bran1986](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/bran1986/32/101405_2.png) [@bran1986](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/bran1986)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 4:03pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/medic-weapons-are-garbage-and-bipoted-campers-the-way-this-game-is-meant-to-be-played-rant/105923/164 "2018-11-26T16:03:00Z")
Smgs go from a 4btk to a 6btk in the span of 25 meters lol. No wonder they feel weak as hell. ---
**Author:** ![DarIthris](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/8c91f0/32.png) [@DarIthris](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/DarIthris)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/medic-weapons-are-garbage-and-bipoted-campers-the-way-this-game-is-meant-to-be-played-rant/105923/165 "2018-11-26T16:38:00Z")
Sadly as a Support I can’t say that camping back when everyone else is doing their thing is a issue. right now with my problem with BF5, just like every other title, players are inherently stupid. They don’t know when to flank or what is better to route themselves away from the typical next cap point. Which is where I cover and hold up. So, if you’re gonna blame Support, or me in particular, then look at the team who’s mainly taking on road to the objective and I’m sitting back and covering the least resistance the enemy will go to. ---
**Author:** ![Theteckmtl](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/theteckmtl/32/107243_2.png) [@Theteckmtl](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Theteckmtl)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 4:55pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/medic-weapons-are-garbage-and-bipoted-campers-the-way-this-game-is-meant-to-be-played-rant/105923/166 "2018-11-26T16:55:00Z")
i need to agree on this post i play only medic on all my game and in bf5 i try and maxed all weapon … and i dont have any weapon that i can kill people with it … its so frustrating … i try to kill a ennemy from behind … and i fire all my ammo and not a single bullet touch him … and he return and kill me instant… i imagine the real weapon in real life its better than than a 5 meter of the target … ---
**Author:** ![bran1986](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/bran1986/32/101405_2.png) [@bran1986](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/bran1986)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/medic-weapons-are-garbage-and-bipoted-campers-the-way-this-game-is-meant-to-be-played-rant/105923/167 "2018-11-26T17:12:00Z")
> [@VincentNZ](#): > > > [@xx\_Dante2k\_xx](#): > > > > > [@VincentNZ](#): > > > > > > > [@LEGATUS\_AUGUSTI](#): > > > > > > > > Then another thing i dont understand, is why the Suomi is considered mediocre in this game. If anyone has a minimum acknowledgement of militaria, he knows that Suomi was not only very accurate and powerful, but had also almost non existant recoil. Its on the same league of the Beretta MAB 38/A, but the latter is a bit lighter than Suomi. > > > > > > > > Suomi should be the best medical weapon by far from the list. Even Sten that was a single piece of iron easy to mass produce has better stats than that. Which is nonsense. > > > > > > The Suomi is better than the Sten. First off all you have 18 bullets more in the mag and a much higher ROF. With the SMGs using the same spread mechanic as in previous BF titles the Suomi also plays similar to a P90 of BF4. You are forced to tapfire it. The Sten however has miniscule recoil and poor accuracy leading to very unintuitive and unrewarding TTK. You should be bursting this weapon as well, but since your crosshair is on target this is unintuitive. So, for the average user, a Suomi is better than the Sten in almost all regards. > > > > Doesn’t the Soumi have a ton of recoil though ? I know smg are meant for close range but I have had some success at mid range with the sten. > > ## @LEGATUS\_AUGUSTI @Major_Pungspark I did not see the reply until today. The stats are out now, you can examine them here: [http://forum.symthic.com/battlefield-v-general-discussion/battlefield-v-technical-discussion/11620-battlefield-5-release-weapon-stats-wip-crude/#post339899](http://forum.symthic.com/battlefield-v-general-discussion/battlefield-v-technical-discussion/11620-battlefield-5-release-weapon-stats-wip-crude/#post339899) > > ## The important bits are the damage, spread and the spread increase, which seems, after a quick look, to be the same for all SMGs. So the only differentiating factor is the recoil. When I take a look at my stats now we put that into perspective: [https://battlefieldtracker.com/bfv/profile/origin/vincentnz/weapons](https://battlefieldtracker.com/bfv/profile/origin/vincentnz/weapons) My average accuracy with the two slow-firing SMGs is 18,70%, while with the Suomi it is 16,00%, that means a 2,7% accuracy difference. For a weapon that fires 30% faster? My KPM went up by 13ish% for using the Suomi as well. There is also to consider that, with 50 bullets and such a high ROF, you are mor inclined to just hose a few extra down the street, or for overkill, decreasing your actual engagement accuracy. Is the Suomi much harder to control? Yes. Does it matter? Not really. What matters is that starting from 0.2 base spread, each shot applies 0.25 oer SIPS to a maximum of 3.0. A Suomi user will at a certain point be overwhelmed by the recoil, and tapfire, causing spread to decrease. A Sten user will shoot longer bursts, because of controllable recoil, but therefore increased average spread. That is before any specs are applied. Accuracy improving specs will likely work the same for all SMGs, since the stats are the same. Recoi upgrades might be percentage based, meaning that reducing the horizontal recoil of the Suomi (which is huge) might be more rewarding than for the MP40. If we look at hipfire, were recoil is not much of an issue, the advantage of the Suomi becomes even more obvious. ROF trumps all. > > As a conclusion: Weapons like the MP34, M40 and Sten have a hard stand against the Thompson, Suomi and MP28. I prefer weapon classes having the same damage stats and generally having the same stat foudnation, but weapons with those low ROFs have no place within the current SMG system and perform even worse when compared to other weapon classes. The best DICE could do is to balance spread increase individually for each SMG, similar to the BF4 system, where having weapons with different niches were actually be a thing. Yeah I don’t get why dice balanced the smgs this way. Having smgs go from a 4 btk at 9 meters to 6 btk at 25 meters is insanely stupid. I knew the spread was increased quite a bit from the beta but giving your “mid range” smgs that are already underpowered the same spread as your cqb powerhouses is asinine. I was checking my stats and was wondering why my accuracy with the Thompson was similar to my accuracy with the mp40, now I know lol. The MP40 Sten, and MP34 need their spread reduced significantly and they need to have their 5 btk range extended out to at least 35 meters. Dice considers 35 meters the start of mid range, so why are smgs doing 17 damage at 25 meters? To me smgs should be doing 20 damage up to 35 meters and then 17 damage from 35-50 meters. This makes smgs on the same level as assault rifles and lmgs to 35 meters, which is the start of mid range, they are still competitive but at a disadvantage to 50 meters. This gives the slow firing smgs a reason to exist, as it stands right now you are better off using faster firing smgs to maximize their power up to 25 meters. ---
**Author:** ![MachoFantast1c0](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/machofantast1c0/32/100978_2.png) [@MachoFantast1c0](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/MachoFantast1c0)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 5:18pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/medic-weapons-are-garbage-and-bipoted-campers-the-way-this-game-is-meant-to-be-played-rant/105923/168 "2018-11-26T17:18:00Z")
Asinine indeed, even this description reads totally ludicrous. You should be a gameplay designer. ---
**Author:** ![bran1986](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/bran1986/32/101405_2.png) [@bran1986](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/bran1986)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 5:29pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/medic-weapons-are-garbage-and-bipoted-campers-the-way-this-game-is-meant-to-be-played-rant/105923/169 "2018-11-26T17:29:00Z")
> [@MachoFantast1c0](#): > > Asinine indeed, even this description reads totally ludicrous. You should be a gameplay designer. I really don’t know what DICE was thinking. “The MP34 will be able to compete with assault rifles at midrange.” Does 17 damage at 25 meters while firing over 100 rpm less, having the same spread as a 900 rpm Thompson(bullets will go where you are aiming!) and a much slower bullet velocity. I wonder why no one is playing medic… ---
**Author:** ![Gforce81](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/gforce81/32/100952_2.png) [@Gforce81](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Gforce81)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/medic-weapons-are-garbage-and-bipoted-campers-the-way-this-game-is-meant-to-be-played-rant/105923/170 "2018-11-26T17:36:00Z")
I made it to Medic level 16 last night after quite a struggle. Got sort of comfortable with the EMP, had my eyes on the MP34 It definitely has more range to it, but as many other have said, you shoot yourself in the foot in CQB with the lesser ROF. I didn’t opt for the ROF upgrade cause I thought: “If I’m going for increasing my ranged potency; why would I want to struggle to wrangle the upped ROF at that distance?” Its funny to hear that they all have the same spread. Yeah, that needs to be adjusted for sure. Totally nonsense that the meatgrinder SMG’s like the Thompson and Suomi have the same spread as the “mid range” options i.e. MP34 - MP40. Dec. 4 can’t come fast enough. I hope they have some serious adjustments for the SMG’s; and honestly at this point, if they can’t figure out why the TTD is so wonky and not matching the TTK, then maybe adjusting the TTK is the answer;\*\*\* for now\*\*\*at least Don’t get me wrong, I love the potent feeling of the weapons, and there is nothing like wiping 3 guys with less than 1 mag cause you got an awesome flank. But on the flipside its just as deflating seeing a guy wielding some random AR (which I’m already starting to detest like I knew I would) at the exact same time, I raise my sights and just about pull the trigger when I’m already in the dirt. ---
**Author:** ![VincentNZ](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/v/ce7236/32.png) [@VincentNZ](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/VincentNZ)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 6:42pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/medic-weapons-are-garbage-and-bipoted-campers-the-way-this-game-is-meant-to-be-played-rant/105923/171 "2018-11-26T18:42:00Z")
> [@bran1986](#): > > > [@VincentNZ](#): > > > > > [@xx\_Dante2k\_xx](#): > > > > > > > [@VincentNZ](#): > > > > > > > > > [@LEGATUS\_AUGUSTI](#): > > > > > > > > > > Then another thing i dont understand, is why the Suomi is considered mediocre in this game. If anyone has a minimum acknowledgement of militaria, he knows that Suomi was not only very accurate and powerful, but had also almost non existant recoil. Its on the same league of the Beretta MAB 38/A, but the latter is a bit lighter than Suomi. > > > > > > > > > > Suomi should be the best medical weapon by far from the list. Even Sten that was a single piece of iron easy to mass produce has better stats than that. Which is nonsense. > > > > > > > > The Suomi is better than the Sten. First off all you have 18 bullets more in the mag and a much higher ROF. With the SMGs using the same spread mechanic as in previous BF titles the Suomi also plays similar to a P90 of BF4. You are forced to tapfire it. The Sten however has miniscule recoil and poor accuracy leading to very unintuitive and unrewarding TTK. You should be bursting this weapon as well, but since your crosshair is on target this is unintuitive. So, for the average user, a Suomi is better than the Sten in almost all regards. > > > > > > Doesn’t the Soumi have a ton of recoil though ? I know smg are meant for close range but I have had some success at mid range with the sten. > > > > ## @LEGATUS\_AUGUSTI @Major_Pungspark I did not see the reply until today. The stats are out now, you can examine them here: [http://forum.symthic.com/battlefield-v-general-discussion/battlefield-v-technical-discussion/11620-battlefield-5-release-weapon-stats-wip-crude/#post339899](http://forum.symthic.com/battlefield-v-general-discussion/battlefield-v-technical-discussion/11620-battlefield-5-release-weapon-stats-wip-crude/#post339899) > > > > ## The important bits are the damage, spread and the spread increase, which seems, after a quick look, to be the same for all SMGs. So the only differentiating factor is the recoil. When I take a look at my stats now we put that into perspective: [https://battlefieldtracker.com/bfv/profile/origin/vincentnz/weapons](https://battlefieldtracker.com/bfv/profile/origin/vincentnz/weapons) My average accuracy with the two slow-firing SMGs is 18,70%, while with the Suomi it is 16,00%, that means a 2,7% accuracy difference. For a weapon that fires 30% faster? My KPM went up by 13ish% for using the Suomi as well. There is also to consider that, with 50 bullets and such a high ROF, you are mor inclined to just hose a few extra down the street, or for overkill, decreasing your actual engagement accuracy. Is the Suomi much harder to control? Yes. Does it matter? Not really. What matters is that starting from 0.2 base spread, each shot applies 0.25 oer SIPS to a maximum of 3.0. A Suomi user will at a certain point be overwhelmed by the recoil, and tapfire, causing spread to decrease. A Sten user will shoot longer bursts, because of controllable recoil, but therefore increased average spread. That is before any specs are applied. Accuracy improving specs will likely work the same for all SMGs, since the stats are the same. Recoi upgrades might be percentage based, meaning that reducing the horizontal recoil of the Suomi (which is huge) might be more rewarding than for the MP40. If we look at hipfire, were recoil is not much of an issue, the advantage of the Suomi becomes even more obvious. ROF trumps all. > > > > As a conclusion: Weapons like the MP34, M40 and Sten have a hard stand against the Thompson, Suomi and MP28. I prefer weapon classes having the same damage stats and generally having the same stat foudnation, but weapons with those low ROFs have no place within the current SMG system and perform even worse when compared to other weapon classes. The best DICE could do is to balance spread increase individually for each SMG, similar to the BF4 system, where having weapons with different niches were actually be a thing. > > Yeah I don’t get why dice balanced the smgs this way. Having smgs go from a 4 btk at 9 meters to 6 btk at 25 meters is insanely stupid. I knew the spread was increased quite a bit from the beta but giving your “mid range” smgs that are already underpowered the same spread as your cqb powerhouses is asinine. I was checking my stats and was wondering why my accuracy with the Thompson was similar to my accuracy with the mp40, now I know lol. > > The MP40 Sten, and MP34 need their spread reduced significantly and they need to have their 5 btk range extended out to at least 35 meters. Dice considers 35 meters the start of mid range, so why are smgs doing 17 damage at 25 meters? To me smgs should be doing 20 damage up to 35 meters and then 17 damage from 35-50 meters. This makes smgs on the same level as assault rifles and lmgs to 35 meters, which is the start of mid range, they are still competitive but at a disadvantage to 50 meters. This gives the slow firing smgs a reason to exist, as it stands right now you are better off using faster firing smgs to maximize their power up to 25 meters. The biggest issue I feel is the SIPS. If we look at the long-range SMGs from BF4, the PP-2000 had, without upgrades, worse base spread values, but a spread increase of 0.076, which is a third of what we have now, while still sporting a higher ROF than the average BFV SMG. Max spread was also lower, and spread decrease was much better. Even in BF4 the balance favoured higher ROF weapons, but here it is really obvious. ---
**Author:** ![bran1986](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/bran1986/32/101405_2.png) [@bran1986](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/bran1986)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 6:44pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/medic-weapons-are-garbage-and-bipoted-campers-the-way-this-game-is-meant-to-be-played-rant/105923/172 "2018-11-26T18:44:00Z")
> [@VincentNZ](#): > > > [@bran1986](#): > > > > > [@VincentNZ](#): > > > > > > > [@xx\_Dante2k\_xx](#): > > > > > > > > > [@VincentNZ](#): > > > > > > > > > > > [@LEGATUS\_AUGUSTI](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > Then another thing i dont understand, is why the Suomi is considered mediocre in this game. If anyone has a minimum acknowledgement of militaria, he knows that Suomi was not only very accurate and powerful, but had also almost non existant recoil. Its on the same league of the Beretta MAB 38/A, but the latter is a bit lighter than Suomi. > > > > > > > > > > > > Suomi should be the best medical weapon by far from the list. Even Sten that was a single piece of iron easy to mass produce has better stats than that. Which is nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > The Suomi is better than the Sten. First off all you have 18 bullets more in the mag and a much higher ROF. With the SMGs using the same spread mechanic as in previous BF titles the Suomi also plays similar to a P90 of BF4. You are forced to tapfire it. The Sten however has miniscule recoil and poor accuracy leading to very unintuitive and unrewarding TTK. You should be bursting this weapon as well, but since your crosshair is on target this is unintuitive. So, for the average user, a Suomi is better than the Sten in almost all regards. > > > > > > > > Doesn’t the Soumi have a ton of recoil though ? I know smg are meant for close range but I have had some success at mid range with the sten. > > > > > > ## @LEGATUS\_AUGUSTI @Major_Pungspark I did not see the reply until today. The stats are out now, you can examine them here: [http://forum.symthic.com/battlefield-v-general-discussion/battlefield-v-technical-discussion/11620-battlefield-5-release-weapon-stats-wip-crude/#post339899](http://forum.symthic.com/battlefield-v-general-discussion/battlefield-v-technical-discussion/11620-battlefield-5-release-weapon-stats-wip-crude/#post339899) > > > > > > ## The important bits are the damage, spread and the spread increase, which seems, after a quick look, to be the same for all SMGs. So the only differentiating factor is the recoil. When I take a look at my stats now we put that into perspective: [https://battlefieldtracker.com/bfv/profile/origin/vincentnz/weapons](https://battlefieldtracker.com/bfv/profile/origin/vincentnz/weapons) My average accuracy with the two slow-firing SMGs is 18,70%, while with the Suomi it is 16,00%, that means a 2,7% accuracy difference. For a weapon that fires 30% faster? My KPM went up by 13ish% for using the Suomi as well. There is also to consider that, with 50 bullets and such a high ROF, you are mor inclined to just hose a few extra down the street, or for overkill, decreasing your actual engagement accuracy. Is the Suomi much harder to control? Yes. Does it matter? Not really. What matters is that starting from 0.2 base spread, each shot applies 0.25 oer SIPS to a maximum of 3.0. A Suomi user will at a certain point be overwhelmed by the recoil, and tapfire, causing spread to decrease. A Sten user will shoot longer bursts, because of controllable recoil, but therefore increased average spread. That is before any specs are applied. Accuracy improving specs will likely work the same for all SMGs, since the stats are the same. Recoi upgrades might be percentage based, meaning that reducing the horizontal recoil of the Suomi (which is huge) might be more rewarding than for the MP40. If we look at hipfire, were recoil is not much of an issue, the advantage of the Suomi becomes even more obvious. ROF trumps all. > > > > > > As a conclusion: Weapons like the MP34, M40 and Sten have a hard stand against the Thompson, Suomi and MP28. I prefer weapon classes having the same damage stats and generally having the same stat foudnation, but weapons with those low ROFs have no place within the current SMG system and perform even worse when compared to other weapon classes. The best DICE could do is to balance spread increase individually for each SMG, similar to the BF4 system, where having weapons with different niches were actually be a thing. > > > > Yeah I don’t get why dice balanced the smgs this way. Having smgs go from a 4 btk at 9 meters to 6 btk at 25 meters is insanely stupid. I knew the spread was increased quite a bit from the beta but giving your “mid range” smgs that are already underpowered the same spread as your cqb powerhouses is asinine. I was checking my stats and was wondering why my accuracy with the Thompson was similar to my accuracy with the mp40, now I know lol. > > > > The MP40 Sten, and MP34 need their spread reduced significantly and they need to have their 5 btk range extended out to at least 35 meters. Dice considers 35 meters the start of mid range, so why are smgs doing 17 damage at 25 meters? To me smgs should be doing 20 damage up to 35 meters and then 17 damage from 35-50 meters. This makes smgs on the same level as assault rifles and lmgs to 35 meters, which is the start of mid range, they are still competitive but at a disadvantage to 50 meters. This gives the slow firing smgs a reason to exist, as it stands right now you are better off using faster firing smgs to maximize their power up to 25 meters. > > The biggest issue I feel is the SIPS. If we look at the long-range SMGs from BF4, the PP-2000 had, without upgrades, worse base spread values, but a spread increase of 0.076, which is a third of what we have now, while still sporting a higher ROF than the average BFV SMG. Max spread was also lower, and spread decrease was much better. Even in BF4 the balance favoured higher ROF weapons, but here it is really obvious. Well said. ---
**Author:** ![Vittich](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/vittich/32/107291_2.png) [@Vittich](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Vittich)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 8:34am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/medic-weapons-are-garbage-and-bipoted-campers-the-way-this-game-is-meant-to-be-played-rant/105923/173 "2018-11-27T08:34:00Z")
Just completed the last MP40 gold-mastery. (which took me 4 rounds for the last 3 masteries) The gun is just insane, the whole medic kit perfectly fits together. Smokes, rushing in, killing your enemies with mp40 in cqc and heal yourself. I guess many people here think too stat-wise. Also i guess that many of you are not aiming down sight but instead using hipfire most. (The only time i did was for the different masteries). With the MP40 you have a brilliant way to kill almost anything - even snipers. Just dont spam autofire and try to use the MP40 as what it is: A rather slow firing precise SMG. In Bf4 you would have called this type Carbine 😉 ---
**Author:** ![VincentNZ](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/v/ce7236/32.png) [@VincentNZ](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/VincentNZ)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 10:47am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/medic-weapons-are-garbage-and-bipoted-campers-the-way-this-game-is-meant-to-be-played-rant/105923/174 "2018-11-27T10:47:00Z")
> [@Vittich](#): > > Just completed the last MP40 gold-mastery. > (which took me 4 rounds for the last 3 masteries) > > The gun is just insane, the whole medic kit perfectly fits together. > > Smokes, rushing in, killing your enemies with mp40 in cqc and heal yourself. > > I guess many people here think too stat-wise. > Also i guess that many of you are not aiming down sight but instead using hipfire most. > (The only time i did was for the different masteries). > > With the MP40 you have a brilliant way to kill almost anything - even snipers. > Just dont spam autofire and try to use the MP40 as what it is: A rather slow firing precise SMG. > In Bf4 you would have called this type Carbine 😉 Except that Carbines had better spread values, more damage, better damage drop-off and a better ROF. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Vittich](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/vittich/32/107291_2.png) [@Vittich](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Vittich)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 11:08am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/medic-weapons-are-garbage-and-bipoted-campers-the-way-this-game-is-meant-to-be-played-rant/105923/175 "2018-11-27T11:08:00Z")
> [@VincentNZ](#): > > > [@Vittich](#): > > > > Just completed the last MP40 gold-mastery. > > (which took me 4 rounds for the last 3 masteries) > > > > The gun is just insane, the whole medic kit perfectly fits together. > > > > Smokes, rushing in, killing your enemies with mp40 in cqc and heal yourself. > > > > I guess many people here think too stat-wise. > > Also i guess that many of you are not aiming down sight but instead using hipfire most. > > (The only time i did was for the different masteries). > > > > With the MP40 you have a brilliant way to kill almost anything - even snipers. > > Just dont spam autofire and try to use the MP40 as what it is: A rather slow firing precise SMG. > > In Bf4 you would have called this type Carbine 😉 > > Except that Carbines had better spread values, more damage, better damage drop-off and a better ROF. 😃 The medic guns are in exactly the same slot as carbines in BF4 - some of them also in the PDW category. You can’t compare the spead value, damage or ROF - because if you do so you need to do this to the assault guns as well. I can’t see a stg44 with 800-900rpm and 1000m range yet (compared to e.g. the AugA3). Also the spread of the assault weapons is immense too. BTT: The medic guns (mostly the MP40 and the Sten) are completely viable at the moment. I am no godlike player but still the MP40 is my best gun currently even though I played the 1-5 for over 1k kills. I bet many of the complainers think that SMGs are “hipfire only” and therefore upgrading the hipfire perks. Try to play the MP40 or Sten as a carbine - and I bet you will love them. ---
**Author:** ![disposalist](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@disposalist](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/disposalist)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 1:48pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/medic-weapons-are-garbage-and-bipoted-campers-the-way-this-game-is-meant-to-be-played-rant/105923/176 "2018-11-27T13:48:00Z")
The basic Sten is not difficult to handle and can be effective. It’s just nowhere near _as_ effective as 90% of other classes’ weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Vittich](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/vittich/32/107291_2.png) [@Vittich](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Vittich)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2018, 3:23pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/medic-weapons-are-garbage-and-bipoted-campers-the-way-this-game-is-meant-to-be-played-rant/105923/177 "2018-11-28T15:23:00Z")
I really don’t know what all of you guys are having troubles with… The Medic guns are in a different spot now than before, **luckily**. In Bf2 they had Assault rifles, in BF3 and BF4 as well. And honestly: This was **far** too OP. Fully Assault-Rifle 4-man Squads running around the map killing everybody due to fairly OP guns (and reviving + healing themselfs)… wtf. **I am SO glad they changed this** - and I need to mention that as a medic main! \<3\<3 BF1 did a good job giving the Medics a weapon type which focusses on a more tactical gameplay… unfortunately they added the Fedorov then… 😑 . . Anyways - the BF1 medic weapons do NOT work for the BF5 medic and i explain you why: . **Now every class except has low selfhealing (or none if already used your 1-time heal).** **That means: If medics would have acurate, long-distance rifles they could just camp over range and win nearly every fight (hidden behind a stone healing themselfes up).** . . Therefore there is **no** other option than giving the medics a PDW / short-range carbine. . Just get used to the new playstyle and don’t think Medic is still an Assault. It’s not. It’s a real **medic** now, wielding a personal defence weapon (PDW). Maybe reviving isn’t satisfying currently, but now our medic heals are **very** important! ---
**Author:** ![VindictiV\_V](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/v/c89c15/32.png) [@VindictiV\_V](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/VindictiV_V)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2018, 3:37pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/medic-weapons-are-garbage-and-bipoted-campers-the-way-this-game-is-meant-to-be-played-rant/105923/178 "2018-11-28T15:37:00Z")
> [@Vittich](#): > > > [@VincentNZ](#): > > > > > [@Vittich](#): > > > > > > Just completed the last MP40 gold-mastery. > > > (which took me 4 rounds for the last 3 masteries) > > > > > > The gun is just insane, the whole medic kit perfectly fits together. > > > > > > Smokes, rushing in, killing your enemies with mp40 in cqc and heal yourself. > > > > > > I guess many people here think too stat-wise. > > > Also i guess that many of you are not aiming down sight but instead using hipfire most. > > > (The only time i did was for the different masteries). > > > > > > With the MP40 you have a brilliant way to kill almost anything - even snipers. > > > Just dont spam autofire and try to use the MP40 as what it is: A rather slow firing precise SMG. > > > In Bf4 you would have called this type Carbine 😉 > > > > Except that Carbines had better spread values, more damage, better damage drop-off and a better ROF. 😃 > > The medic guns are in exactly the same slot as carbines in BF4 - some of them also in the PDW category. > > You can’t compare the spead value, damage or ROF - because if you do so you need to do this to the assault guns as well. > I can’t see a stg44 with 800-900rpm and 1000m range yet (compared to e.g. the AugA3). Also the spread of the assault weapons is immense too. > > BTT: The medic guns (mostly the MP40 and the Sten) are completely viable at the moment. I am no godlike player but still the MP40 is my best gun currently even though I played the 1-5 for over 1k kills. > > I bet many of the complainers think that SMGs are “hipfire only” and therefore upgrading the hipfire perks. > > Try to play the MP40 or Sten as a carbine - and I bet you will love them. The topic has been discussed to death and everybody that played all classes knows that medic class suffers… a lot! - SMGs’ niche is up to 9m. After 9m they go from 4 BTK to 5 (same BTK as the ARs). Also, SMGs go from 5BTK to 6 at 25m while ARs only become 6BTK at 50m. - ARs are INCREDIBLY more accurate - ARs also happens to have SIGNIFICANT faster RoF than SMGs beside suomi and thompson - ARs also have bigger mag capacities by default (31 vs 20) than a lot of SMGs (suomi, thompson, MP34 all only have 20 rounds) ---
**Author:** ![MachoFantast1c0](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/machofantast1c0/32/100978_2.png) [@MachoFantast1c0](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/MachoFantast1c0)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2018, 4:14pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/medic-weapons-are-garbage-and-bipoted-campers-the-way-this-game-is-meant-to-be-played-rant/105923/179 "2018-11-28T16:14:00Z")
VindictiVagabond wrote: [»](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/medic-weapons-are-garbage-and-bipoted-campers-the-way-this-game-is-meant-to-be-played-rant/105923/178) > [@Vittich](#): > > > [@VincentNZ](#): > > > > > [@Vittich](#): > > > > > > Just completed the last MP40 gold-mastery. > > > (which took me 4 rounds for the last 3 masteries) > > > > > > The gun is just insane, the whole medic kit perfectly fits together. > > > > > > Smokes, rushing in, killing your enemies with mp40 in cqc and heal yourself. > > > > > > I guess many people here think too stat-wise. > > > Also i guess that many of you are not aiming down sight but instead using hipfire most. > > > (The only time i did was for the different masteries). > > > > > > With the MP40 you have a brilliant way to kill almost anything - even snipers. > > > Just dont spam autofire and try to use the MP40 as what it is: A rather slow firing precise SMG. > > > In Bf4 you would have called this type Carbine 😉 > > > > Except that Carbines had better spread values, more damage, better damage drop-off and a better ROF. 😃 > > The medic guns are in exactly the same slot as carbines in BF4 - some of them also in the PDW category. > > You can’t compare the spead value, damage or ROF - because if you do so you need to do this to the assault guns as well. > I can’t see a stg44 with 800-900rpm and 1000m range yet (compared to e.g. the AugA3). Also the spread of the assault weapons is immense too. > > BTT: The medic guns (mostly the MP40 and the Sten) are completely viable at the moment. I am no godlike player but still the MP40 is my best gun currently even though I played the 1-5 for over 1k kills. > > I bet many of the complainers think that SMGs are “hipfire only” and therefore upgrading the hipfire perks. > > Try to play the MP40 or Sten as a carbine - and I bet you will love them. The topic has been discussed to death and everybody that played all classes knows that medic class suffers… a lot! - SMGs’ niche is up to 9m. After 9m they go from 4 BTK to 5 (same BTK as the ARs). Also, SMGs go from 5BTK to 6 at 25m while ARs only become 6BTK at 50m. - ARs are INCREDIBLY more accurate - ARs also happens to have SIGNIFICANT faster RoF than SMGs beside suomi and thompson - ARs also have bigger mag capacities by default (31 vs 20) than a lot of SMGs (suomi, thompson, MP34 all only have 20 rounds) ---
**Author:** ![fakemon64](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/f/7ba0ec/32.png) [@fakemon64](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/fakemon64)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/medic-weapons-are-garbage-and-bipoted-campers-the-way-this-game-is-meant-to-be-played-rant/105923/180 "2018-11-28T16:31:00Z")
as of now medic’s best weapon is smoke. i think they should have access to the semi automatic weapons that the assault gets as well as their current smgs. right now medic gameplay revolves too much around trying to break the range of the enemy team to fight on your terms. as soon as you run out of smoke, youre pretty much cucked though. [Previous page](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/medic-weapons-are-garbage-and-bipoted-campers-the-way-this-game-is-meant-to-be-played-rant/105923.md?page=8) [Next page](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/medic-weapons-are-garbage-and-bipoted-campers-the-way-this-game-is-meant-to-be-played-rant/105923.md?page=10)