# North Sea Update – Weapon balance - Feedback and discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 30, 2018, 10:01am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/north-sea-update-weapon-balance-feedback-and-discussion/103320 "2018-01-30T10:01:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![EA\_Alexander](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/ea_alexander/32/101014_2.png) [@EA\_Alexander](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/EA_Alexander)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 10:01am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/north-sea-update-weapon-balance-feedback-and-discussion/103320/1 "2018-01-30T10:01:00Z")
![z78kyhvnlxzb.jpg](https://battlefieldforum.co/uploads/default/original/3X/1/e/1e01018f3d762e7d9de636d37c60653a78c4d125.jpeg) Please use this thread for general feedback on Time To Kill changes. For your reference, the following summaries detail how these changes will alter the encounters at the ideal engagement ranges: **Assault vs…** …Medic - Medic remains superior at any distance outside of very close range - The overall decrease in TTK at close range for Assault weapons should ensure their superiority at ideal engagement range …Support - The biggest difference here is that Support weapons will be slower to get on target at close range, pushing the engagement slightly more in favor of the Assault than it already was - At longer distances the Support LMGs remain far superior to the Assault SMGs and shotguns …Scout - These encounters remain mostly unchanged - These classes are opposite extremes; the winner of the engagement will usually come down to range **Medic vs…** …Support - The main change here is in how the Medic approaches an LMG. Previously the SLRs were like LMGs in terms of raw TTK, meaning it was often possible to outshoot one head to head. With the changes this is more dangerous, as the LMG will be more likely to kill the Medic before he can reach cover to heal - LMG accuracy at close range is weaker than before however, plus Medic rifles have improved range, leaving the medic with several options of approach - take potshots at the Support from longer distances, or attack from unexpected angles to exploit the LMG weakness when not already in ADS or on a bipod …Scout - Medics are slightly more accurate at longer distances and are therefore an increased threat to Scouts than previously - Otherwise these encounters remain unchanged **Support vs…** …Scout - Support is slightly more dangerous at long range than before. There is therefore increased pressure on the Scout to score a one hit kill from an unexpected location before the Support can return fire - Otherwise these encounters remain unchanged With regards to weapon family specific changes, you will see an overall reduction in the number of bullets required to kill a target at a weapons ideal engagement range, along with some general improvements to their handling: **Shotguns** - Shotguns remain the strongest close-range weapon with generally very poor ranged performance (except for the “Slug” variants) - They have suffered from inconsistency due to how shotgun pellets work, which we’ve improved by reducing how much randomness plays a part in the shotgun dispersion. All shotguns now fire 12 pellets. The dispersion is now broken down into 12 sectors, 6 in an inner circle and 6 in an outer ring. Each sector will contain 1 pellet. This ensures that all 12 pellets are more evenly spread over the dispersion cone, and prevents all the pellets from bunching up in one area, which could cause lucky one hit kills at longer distances, or inversely result in a complete miss. **Sub Machine Guns - SMGs** - SMGs remain very strong close-range weapons, second only to Shotguns - High bullet damage drop-off and large spread make them ineffective at longer distances than all other weapons, with the exception of Shotguns - The variance in raw TTK of the SMGs has been reduced, reducing the benefit of that advantage on specific SMGs (such as the Hellriegel and Automatico) and increasing the options available to Assault players **Light Machine Guns - LMGs** - LMGs offer the most firepower, but at the cost of handling and mobility - The strongest weapon at medium range when ready for a fight - If caught off guard however their poor hip-fire and high spread mechanics put them at a disadvantage **Self-Loading Rifles - SLRs** - The most flexible weapon - Slightly weaker in terms of TTK than most other weapons but with advantages over all others in some area - Much better ranged performance than SMGs and shotguns - Better handling and can get on target accurately faster than LMGs - More effective at closer ranges than bolt actions **Bolt Actions** - Bolt actions offer one hit kills at longer ranges - They have very low fire rates however which makes them very weak up close - These are the least changed weapon type It’s worth noting that this thread is for feedback and discussion of said changes only. **Keep it on topic.** ---
**Author:** ![BaronVonGoon](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/baronvongoon/32/100934_2.png) [@BaronVonGoon](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/BaronVonGoon)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 3:53pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/north-sea-update-weapon-balance-feedback-and-discussion/103320/2 "2018-01-30T15:53:00Z")
TTK 2.0 is fantastic! If you were a strong flanker, you’re now even stronger. The buff to medic is noticeable at range. The previously weak LMGs are much more viable now. Great job Dice! ---
**Author:** ![xDJ\_Cas](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/xdj_cas/32/104103_2.png) [@xDJ\_Cas](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/xDJ_Cas)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 4:22pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/north-sea-update-weapon-balance-feedback-and-discussion/103320/3 "2018-01-30T16:22:00Z")
DICE as usually. Releases the game then after 6-12 months break with new changes for weapons. You still didn’t learn for 15 years of real balance. Just ZERO. This is a whole new mechanic of weapons now where there is no sens … ---
**Author:** ![grrlpurple](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@grrlpurple](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/grrlpurple)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 4:29pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/north-sea-update-weapon-balance-feedback-and-discussion/103320/4 "2018-01-30T16:29:00Z")
So far I’m hating the TTK changes. Aggressive scout is dead, the pace of gameplay is now suited to someone twenty years my junior dosed up on high caffeine energy drinks and you spend more time in the spawn screen from quick deaths from all classes. Fewer tactics and faster twitch reflexes don’t always make for a great game. ---
**Author:** ![HuwJarz](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/huwjarz/32/102119_2.png) [@HuwJarz](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/HuwJarz)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/north-sea-update-weapon-balance-feedback-and-discussion/103320/5 "2018-01-30T18:00:00Z")
> [@grrlpurple](#): > > So far I’m hating the TTK changes. Aggressive scout is dead, the pace of gameplay is now suited to someone twenty years my junior dosed up on high caffeine energy drinks and you spend more time in the spawn screen from quick deaths from all classes. Fewer tactics and faster twitch reflexes don’t always make for a great game. That is my first impression too… ---
**Author:** ![magosnow](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@magosnow](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/magosnow)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/north-sea-update-weapon-balance-feedback-and-discussion/103320/6 "2018-01-30T18:36:00Z")
Noobriegel is still tremendously easy to use on consoles, now even more. It’s ridiculous to be able to outgun,outsuppress,outeverything at any range for 40 round with no penalties. ---
**Author:** ![betarom](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/b5ac83/32.png) [@betarom](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/betarom)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 7:01pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/north-sea-update-weapon-balance-feedback-and-discussion/103320/7 "2018-01-30T19:01:00Z")
The game or gunplay with the long ttk (or whatever you like to call it), was something i liked about battlefield 1. it feelt different and somewhat fitting to the wwI setting. On the other hand, i was not happy with the medic class and the changes make some sense to me. So after a break of a weak i played again today and i did not enjoy the game anymore. Kills do not feel rewarding. Getting one shooted by a scout feel annoying. Iam not a fan of BF4 after DICE LA took their hands over it. With the cheater situation pre-patch and now the changes to the gameplay, iam permanently out of this game. ---
**Author:** ![Nonstickron](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/nonstickron/32/102975_2.png) [@Nonstickron](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Nonstickron)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/north-sea-update-weapon-balance-feedback-and-discussion/103320/8 "2018-01-30T19:58:00Z")
Wow, I came here expecting people to be as excited about the patch as myself. So much salt in here, and I’m just sitting at work dying to go home and pick up my Huot. ---
**Author:** ![BrianLocal1](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/e56c9b/32.png) [@BrianLocal1](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/BrianLocal1)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/north-sea-update-weapon-balance-feedback-and-discussion/103320/9 "2018-01-30T20:11:00Z")
I’m not really for it, but I guess I’ll adjust. I used to like using lmg and slr in cqc. ---
**Author:** ![Tr34](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/tr34/32/103874_2.png) [@Tr34](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Tr34)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/north-sea-update-weapon-balance-feedback-and-discussion/103320/10 "2018-01-30T20:25:00Z")
I really disliked the new slow LMG zoom-in speed, it really kills the fun of the game. It’s also a huge buff for Assault class against LMGs. They already have insta-kill weapons like Automatico, Hellriegel and Shotguns. I don’t think this kind of nerf to LMGs were necessary. ---
**Author:** ![ThePunisher\_be](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@ThePunisher\_be](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/ThePunisher_be)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/north-sea-update-weapon-balance-feedback-and-discussion/103320/11 "2018-01-30T20:48:00Z")
> [@grrlpurple](#): > > So far I’m hating the TTK changes. Aggressive scout is dead, the pace of gameplay is now suited to someone twenty years my junior dosed up on high caffeine energy drinks and you spend more time in the spawn screen from quick deaths from all classes. Fewer tactics and faster twitch reflexes don’t always make for a great game. Agressive scout still works for me. You need a fast fireing carbine, though. I just went 50-10’ish with Arisaka/Carcano on Achi Baba. Make use of cover to pop and shoot, and move progressively closer and closer. ---
**Author:** ![herodes87](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@herodes87](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/herodes87)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 9:01pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/north-sea-update-weapon-balance-feedback-and-discussion/103320/12 "2018-01-30T21:01:00Z")
Thanks for removing the last WW1 experience and turn it in a Twitch Shooter like many others Out there. Maybe next Update should remove Medic and Scout. And don’t forget cavalry and Elite classes because they are useless now. ---
**Author:** ![bran1986](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/bran1986/32/101405_2.png) [@bran1986](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/bran1986)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 9:13pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/north-sea-update-weapon-balance-feedback-and-discussion/103320/13 "2018-01-30T21:13:00Z")
To put it bluntly, it sucks. Buffing assaults even more, all the while nerfing every class against them is beyond idiotic. Buffing the lmgs significantly and keeping their suppression as strong as it is, is just dumbfounding. Cqb weapons for each class should be balanced in close proximity to each other, a medics cqb weapons shouldn’t be on par with long range lmgs. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_DarIing](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/captain_dariing/32/101459_2.png) [@Captain\_DarIing](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Captain_DarIing)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 9:42pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/north-sea-update-weapon-balance-feedback-and-discussion/103320/14 "2018-01-30T21:42:00Z")
All these changes… and still no functioning teambalancer. Shame on you DICE, shame on you. ---
**Author:** ![Nietzscheese](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/nietzscheese/32/102953_2.png) [@Nietzscheese](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Nietzscheese)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 10:49pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/north-sea-update-weapon-balance-feedback-and-discussion/103320/15 "2018-01-30T22:49:00Z")
Some of these guns did NOT need a max damage buff. The Hellriegel was always very strong and now its even better. Guns like the BAR and Parabellum were fine in terms of max damage. Most LMGs just needed a MIN damage buff. These changes encourage low accuracy spray and pray. The Selbstlader and Mondragon are now quite weak compared to LMG/SMG and it is not a good idea to go near flags. Medics are forced to use RSC and 8 .25 to be competitive and that removes their ability to ping at snipers as they cross open ground. Turns them into short-med specialists. If the medic misses ONE shot they are probably dead. Meanwhile, the assault/support guy just needs to hold left mouse and be roughly accurate. The skill requirement is much higher for medics in any engagement on a flag. PTFO medics cannot use Selbstlader or Mondragon and stand a chance on the flag. Even with RSC they have to be a much better player than the guy holding left mouse on a Hellriegel. ---
**Author:** ![MissCommissar](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/misscommissar/32/102824_2.png) [@MissCommissar](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/MissCommissar)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 11:25pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/north-sea-update-weapon-balance-feedback-and-discussion/103320/16 "2018-01-30T23:25:00Z")
It feels, like recoil reduction on self-loaders is not such serious in game right now, as it was in CTE. If it is so, then it’s not a really good thing, I wish, it could be like it was there. SMGs had to get TTK improvement, but, for example, MP12/16 is still a trash gun, it’s still almost impossbile to kill anyone with it, and even if you do, your mag is empty anyway, you only killed 1 guy. Sad, should be fixed. And (if I may) the last one note is not about weapons, but it is about TTK anyway and I had a thread somewhere about it, which was totaly ignored, but it’s a real problem, that balance/design team should take their attention to. With “QF-1 vs. bombers” hitboxes bug fixed, QF-1 now has same TTK against bombers, which suppoused to be solid and survivable, as against attack planes or fighters. That’s totaly unacceptable, QF-1’s damage to bombers and heavy bombers should be majorly decreased for the balance sake. ---
**Author:** ![robmcewen](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/robmcewen/32/102169_2.png) [@robmcewen](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/robmcewen)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 11:29pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/north-sea-update-weapon-balance-feedback-and-discussion/103320/17 "2018-01-30T23:29:00Z")
I’ll give it a week before I’ll give you my feedback, I want to have about two nights play time with each class and see what it’s like for each of them. ---
**Author:** ![Siculu](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Siculu](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Siculu)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 11:41pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/north-sea-update-weapon-balance-feedback-and-discussion/103320/18 "2018-01-30T23:41:00Z")
> [@Nietzscheese](#): > > Some of these guns did NOT need a max damage buff. The Hellriegel was always very strong and now its even better. Guns like the BAR and Parabellum were fine in terms of max damage. Most LMGs just needed a MIN damage buff. These changes encourage low accuracy spray and pray. > > The Selbstlader and Mondragon are now quite weak compared to LMG/SMG and it is not a good idea to go near flags. Medics are forced to use RSC and 8 .25 to be competitive and that removes their ability to ping at snipers as they cross open ground. Turns them into short-med specialists. > > If the medic misses ONE shot they are probably dead. Meanwhile, the assault/support guy just needs to hold left mouse and be roughly accurate. The skill requirement is much higher for medics in any engagement on a flag. > > PTFO medics cannot use Selbstlader or Mondragon and stand a chance on the flag. Even with RSC they have to be a much better player than the guy holding left mouse on a Hellriegel. I agree with this post 100% ---
**Author:** ![SoullessNoob](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SoullessNoob](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/SoullessNoob)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 12:03am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/north-sea-update-weapon-balance-feedback-and-discussion/103320/19 "2018-01-31T00:03:00Z")
New maps are massacre 😃 , i like it. ---
**Author:** ![BrianLocal1](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/e56c9b/32.png) [@BrianLocal1](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/BrianLocal1)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 12:33am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/north-sea-update-weapon-balance-feedback-and-discussion/103320/20 "2018-01-31T00:33:00Z")
All I’m seeing is heilregels today so there’s definitely not less there’s more. And they messed up LMGs, way to go! [Next page](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/north-sea-update-weapon-balance-feedback-and-discussion/103320.md?page=2)