# PTO \> attempting to PTO **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 19, 2016, 1:28pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/pto-attempting-to-pto/101419 "2016-05-19T13:28:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jihad\_Jockey](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/jihad_jockey/32/102395_2.png) [@Jihad\_Jockey](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Jihad_Jockey)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 1:28pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/pto-attempting-to-pto/101419/1 "2016-05-19T13:28:00Z")
I’ve been seeing the same arguments a lot around here; “my stats are bad because I play the objective”. So this thread is to address why that statement is silly, and also hopefully prepare people when the new game drops. The statement is wrong, for two reasons. 1. Playing the objective does not guarantee bad stats. 2. If you died on the way to your objective you didn’t achieve anything, therefore just attempted to play the objective. There is nothing wrong with attempting to play the objective. But there is a time and a place to attack the next flag. Just like there is a time and a place to defend flags. Mindless flag running does barely anything for your team. Why run off to cap a flag if the one you just left will get taken by the enemy immediately? What have you gained? That IS NOT playing the objective. Dont be scared to get into a gunfight. It is the only way you will improve. This doesnt mean that you run headlong into the enemy. Flank if you have to. If you dont engage the enemy there is a stronger chance that they will achieve their goals. Every enemy is an objective. You dont ignore flags so why ignore enemy soldiers? Make the most of the advantage your beast vehicle players are giving you. Attack flags when the enemies armour is down. Support your tanks that will in turn defend you as you cap. Do not think a player is useless if he has a higher k/d than you. There is more than one reason why he is above you on the scoreboard. And have fun, but not at the expense of your team mates. ---
**Author:** ![Jihad\_Jockey](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/jihad_jockey/32/102395_2.png) [@Jihad\_Jockey](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Jihad_Jockey)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/pto-attempting-to-pto/101419/2 "2016-05-19T19:02:00Z")
So i guess everbody agrees and nobody wants to say i’m wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Rev0verDrive](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@Rev0verDrive](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Rev0verDrive)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/pto-attempting-to-pto/101419/3 "2016-05-19T19:11:00Z")
Pretty accurate. What about the player that attacks and takes a flag and then sticks to it? Say it’s one of 3/5 for the bleed. If he stays to defend it and no one attacks does he move on to the 4th or to another flag that’s being defended? You know as soon as he leaves his, especially if he was the only one defending it will be attacked and taken. ---
**Author:** ![Say\_Hellr](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/say_hellr/32/103374_2.png) [@Say\_Hellr](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Say_Hellr)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 7:12pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/pto-attempting-to-pto/101419/4 "2016-05-19T19:12:00Z")
No people don’t enjoy reading paragraphs.. ---
**Author:** ![DannyTanner17](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/dannytanner17/32/101626_2.png) [@DannyTanner17](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/DannyTanner17)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 7:12pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/pto-attempting-to-pto/101419/5 "2016-05-19T19:12:00Z")
I agree with you. I can only speak for myself in relation to the topic. I don’t have the best stats, but I’m far from the worst, and I and an objective (synonym for street-walker). I know when I do something stupid like rushing in too fast and getting killed for it. I suspect others do the same and blame their lapse in judgement on playing the objective instead of playing the objective while playing smart. ---
**Author:** ![Jihad\_Jockey](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/jihad_jockey/32/102395_2.png) [@Jihad\_Jockey](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Jihad_Jockey)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/pto-attempting-to-pto/101419/6 "2016-05-19T19:17:00Z")
@Rev0verDrive - I guess it depends what the rest of his squad are doing @Say_Hellr - That is true @DannyTanner17 - Your last sentence is spot on mate ---
**Author:** ![Sir-xer21](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/sir-xer21/32/103487_2.png) [@Sir-xer21](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Sir-xer21)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 7:31pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/pto-attempting-to-pto/101419/7 "2016-05-19T19:31:00Z")
> [@Rev0verDrive](#): > > Pretty accurate. What about the player that attacks and takes a flag and then sticks to it? Say it’s one of 3/5 for the bleed. If he stays to defend it and no one attacks does he move on to the 4th or to another flag that’s being defended? You know as soon as he leaves his, especially if he was the only one defending it will be attacked and taken. generally speaking, if you know you can control 40% of the flags as is, aggression is almost always the right answer. its the difference between a slow grind and a fast win. ---
**Author:** ![Rev0verDrive](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@Rev0verDrive](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Rev0verDrive)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 7:39pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/pto-attempting-to-pto/101419/8 "2016-05-19T19:39:00Z")
> [@Jihad\_Jockey](#): > > @Rev0verDrive - I guess it depends what the rest of his squad are doing On most maps I tend to stick to the 2 closest flags in the map. This allows me to defend/hold 2 vs 1. A lot of the time they are the most contested other times they are not. When they are contested I can get huge kills (2+ kdr) and higher kpm/spm. When they aren’t it’s the opposite. Generally just lower kpm/spm. Having a low spm/kpm to most is the sign of a noob, no good scrub. I play all DLC, 64p CQL mostly. My BF4 overview: Skill (268), KDR (1.59), SPM (435), KPM (0.85), wins (57%) == scrub useless noob vs. Good player, PTFOer, must be hacking etc. [http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/battlereport/show/1/727216216692214720/188850079/](http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/battlereport/show/1/727216216692214720/188850079/) [http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/battlereport/show/1/704114721178296448/188850079/](http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/battlereport/show/1/704114721178296448/188850079/) [http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/battlereport/show/1/714321298433430912/188850079/](http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/battlereport/show/1/714321298433430912/188850079/) [http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/battlereport/show/1/613599028943924224/188850079/](http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/battlereport/show/1/613599028943924224/188850079/) ---
**Author:** ![Rev0verDrive](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@Rev0verDrive](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Rev0verDrive)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 7:49pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/pto-attempting-to-pto/101419/9 "2016-05-19T19:49:00Z")
> [@Sir-xer21](#): > > > [@Rev0verDrive](#): > > > > Pretty accurate. What about the player that attacks and takes a flag and then sticks to it? Say it’s one of 3/5 for the bleed. If he stays to defend it and no one attacks does he move on to the 4th or to another flag that’s being defended? You know as soon as he leaves his, especially if he was the only one defending it will be attacked and taken. > > generally speaking, if you know you can control 40% of the flags as is, aggression is almost always the right answer. its the difference between a slow grind and a fast win. But that’s not taking into consideration the rest of the team. When stacked, yeah no point in sticking to it. When facing stacked or having a team full of blueberries not attacking/holding gains it’s a different story. I usually see the latter. ---
**Author:** ![JumpyZombie](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/j/5f8ce5/32.png) [@JumpyZombie](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/JumpyZombie)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 7:58pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/pto-attempting-to-pto/101419/10 "2016-05-19T19:58:00Z")
The problem OP is most guys at this point in BF4 are not PTO players or even try to PTO. If you were a true PTO player , you would not care if the guy was a good PTO player or bad PTO player, because it least he is trying to help his team win by being at the flag locations and getting them and holding them. I can’t tell you how many games I have played , where 32 players on losing team don’t own any flag locations for 10 mins, and the flag locations are not blinking or contested. The problem with the game is Dice created a game where hardly anybody cares if the team wins or loses. How can 32 players on losing team not care if they pick up flags , when their team owns None? I recommend Dice having on Scoreboard flag captures and flag defends. Then it would be obvious, the good PTO guys that cap and are towards the top of the scoreboard. The PTO guys that cap and have 3 or 4 flag captures and average k/d stat. And the masses of guys, that never picked a flag in the whole game, probably 20-25 guys per team. . OP , why are you not addressing the obvious, hardly any one cares about PTO in BF4. If you do, good for you. You are a keeper. But don’t dump on guys that are “trying to PTO”, they at least get some flags, better than most of the guys on team that hardly ever get any flags or care about flags. You should be in favor of having Dice show flag captures and flag defends on scoreboard so the PTO can be identified. ---
**Author:** ![Sir-xer21](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/sir-xer21/32/103487_2.png) [@Sir-xer21](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Sir-xer21)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/pto-attempting-to-pto/101419/11 "2016-05-19T20:03:00Z")
> [@Rev0verDrive](#): > > > [@Sir-xer21](#): > > > > > [@Rev0verDrive](#): > > > > > > Pretty accurate. What about the player that attacks and takes a flag and then sticks to it? Say it’s one of 3/5 for the bleed. If he stays to defend it and no one attacks does he move on to the 4th or to another flag that’s being defended? You know as soon as he leaves his, especially if he was the only one defending it will be attacked and taken. > > > > generally speaking, if you know you can control 40% of the flags as is, aggression is almost always the right answer. its the difference between a slow grind and a fast win. > > But that’s not taking into consideration the rest of the team. When stacked, yeah no point in sticking to it. When facing stacked or having a team full of blueberries not attacking/holding gains it’s a different story. I usually see the latter. i didnt take into consideration the rest of the team. I said it right there: " if you know you can control 40% of the flags as is". did you think i was talking about my own ability to hold half the flags solo? that’s not talking about a stacked team. if you think your team can hold 2/5 flags, how is that a stacked team? most teams can do this. further, if you’re facing a stacked team or your team is awful, you arent going to be in a situation where you’re holding 2/5 flags and you just up and solo cap a base very often. because those are even teams, not stacked teams. ---
**Author:** ![Sir-xer21](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/sir-xer21/32/103487_2.png) [@Sir-xer21](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Sir-xer21)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/pto-attempting-to-pto/101419/12 "2016-05-19T20:04:00Z")
> [@JumpyZombie](#): > > The problem OP is most guys at this point in BF4 are not PTO players or even try to PTO. > > If you were a true PTO player , you would not care if the guy was a good PTO player or bad PTO player, because it least he is trying to help his team win by being at the flag locations and getting them and holding them. > > I can’t tell you how many games I have played , where 32 players on losing team don’t own any flag locations for 10 mins, and the flag locations are not blinking or contested. The problem with the game is Dice created a game where hardly anybody cares if the team wins or loses. How can 32 players on losing team not care if they pick up flags , when their team owns None? > > I recommend Dice having on Scoreboard flag captures and flag defends. > > Then it would be obvious, the good PTO guys that cap and are towards the top of the scoreboard. > > The PTO guys that cap and have 3 or 4 flag captures and average k/d stat. > > And the masses of guys, that never picked a flag in the whole game, probably 20-25 guys per team. . OP , why are you not addressing the obvious, hardly any one cares about PTO in BF4. If you do, good for you. You are a keeper. > > But don’t dump on guys that are “trying to PTO”, they at least get some flags, because than most of the guys on team that hardly ever go for flag or care about flags. > > You should be in favor or having Dice show flag captures and flag defends, if you are PTO guy, and if you want to see the other PTO guys on your team, and the masses of guys that have 0 flags. playing the objective alreayd gives so many points that if you were a half way competent player, you’d be topping the scoreboard with all those flag caps. you dont, because you either waste your time attacking ancillary flags that wont hlep your team position itself or you’re (pretty obviously) playing flag runs. ---
**Author:** ![Jihad\_Jockey](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/jihad_jockey/32/102395_2.png) [@Jihad\_Jockey](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Jihad_Jockey)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 8:20pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/pto-attempting-to-pto/101419/13 "2016-05-19T20:20:00Z")
@JumpyZombie - I did say that there is nothing wrong with attempting to play the objective. I’m not dumping on anybody. ---
**Author:** ![JumpyZombie](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/j/5f8ce5/32.png) [@JumpyZombie](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/JumpyZombie)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/pto-attempting-to-pto/101419/14 "2016-05-19T20:23:00Z")
oh, ok. Mis-understanding, then. no problem. It’s the masses of players that don’t PTO that need to be addressed by Dice. Scoreboard with flags/mcomms/defends … and percentage of time in the flag zone should be on scoreboard too. So scoreboard would show: Jumpy 8/8 k/d 5flags 2 defends and 80 percent in flag zones. Loser 5/2 k/d 0 flags 0 defends and 0 percent in flag zones. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Benny9393](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/benny9393/32/101317_2.png) [@Benny9393](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Benny9393)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 8:38pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/pto-attempting-to-pto/101419/15 "2016-05-19T20:38:00Z")
Just throwing it out there that I think more should be done to incentivise defending flags. You don’t really get any points from it whereas capturing a flag gets you pretty much the most amount of points for one action in the game. It would make healthier gameplay and incentivise people to actually do something other than run around like headless chickens. ---
**Author:** ![DannyTanner17](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/dannytanner17/32/101626_2.png) [@DannyTanner17](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/DannyTanner17)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 8:41pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/pto-attempting-to-pto/101419/16 "2016-05-19T20:41:00Z")
> [@Benny9393](#): > > Just throwing it out there that I think more should be done to incentivise defending flags. You don’t really get any points from it whereas capturing a flag gets you pretty much the most amount of points for one action in the game. > > It would make healthier gameplay and incentivise people to actually do something other than run around like headless chickens. What would you propose though? I’m not opposed to the idea, but I’m not sure how to implement. Maybe add a 50% bonus to gun kills? I say gun kills in case land mines are able to be equipped and I don’t feel that set it and forget it type weapons should have bonuses awarded to them. ---
**Author:** ![JumpyZombie](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/j/5f8ce5/32.png) [@JumpyZombie](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/JumpyZombie)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 8:43pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/pto-attempting-to-pto/101419/17 "2016-05-19T20:43:00Z")
Yeah, you should get credit for standing inside the flag zone, because if 2 guys on your team are in the zone and you own the flag, it would take 3 enemies to bring the flag down. We get no credit for being in Intense Flag Zones compared to being in the hills or towers. The guys that are in the flag zones are what wins the games. All those guys in the hills and towers don’t win the games, it’s the boots on the ground at the flags that win it for the team. Give PTO guys points for being in the thick of it. ---
**Author:** ![Jihad\_Jockey](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/jihad_jockey/32/102395_2.png) [@Jihad\_Jockey](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Jihad_Jockey)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 9:11pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/pto-attempting-to-pto/101419/18 "2016-05-19T21:11:00Z")
> [@JumpyZombie](#): > > All those guys in the hills and towers don’t win the games, it’s the boots on the ground at the flags that win it for the team. Give PTO guys points for being in the thick of it. They already get points for being in the thick of it, and in turn get more points than the people on the hills ---
**Author:** ![H-Hour\_Absolute](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/h/85f322/32.png) [@H-Hour\_Absolute](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/H-Hour_Absolute)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/pto-attempting-to-pto/101419/19 "2016-05-19T21:18:00Z")
Only problem with your logic is that you have to “try to play the objective” in order to “succeed playing the objective” So by default, one is the foundation of the other. And though I get what you’re saying, I think it’s a reductionist/straw man argument to suggest that either one is “greater” because they’re both two sides to the same coin. If you don’t try, you can’t ever succeed. But trying without succeeding, is failing. See how it’s an oxymoron to say one is greater than the other? They’re each other’s ying and yang. Edit: And, I suppose the strongest argument is that “trying” is always better. If you try, sooner or later you will succeed. If you don’t try, you’ll never succeed. ---
**Author:** ![Rev0verDrive](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@Rev0verDrive](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Rev0verDrive)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 9:23pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/pto-attempting-to-pto/101419/20 "2016-05-19T21:23:00Z")
Here’s an “example” that I’ve proposed. ![ve0IJli.jpg](https://battlefieldforum.co/uploads/default/original/3X/2/5/250292e9f6eaac2382278440fc2a7931f9fd2ab8.jpeg) This would get more players on objectives and greatly increase the residence on held flags. Defenders actually getting more points over time. [Next page](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/pto-attempting-to-pto/101419.md?page=2)