# Shotgun adjustments **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 4, 2020, 2:25pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/shotgun-adjustments/258265 "2020-04-04T14:25:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![CT1924](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/ct1924/32/106572_2.png) [@CT1924](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/CT1924)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2020, 7:03pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/shotgun-adjustments/258265/41 "2020-04-05T19:03:00Z")
> [@InS\_Hypno](#): > > (Quote) > If you aim on target it isn’t inconsistent > You shouldn’t lose a 1v1 against an SMG > Especially on console where you can abuse the aim assist > If you are engaging out of range you shouldn’t take the fight > Just like an SMG wouldn’t engage a Gewerh-43 at 30 meters up > > Whoever is approving the other comments just erase them If the SMG is at 7m, you will lose though, and the suomi is just as effective at that range. ---
**Author:** ![InS\_Hypno](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/ins_hypno/32/106778_2.png) [@InS\_Hypno](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/InS_Hypno)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 5:11pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/shotgun-adjustments/258265/42 "2020-06-02T17:11:00Z")
> [@talhaONE](#): > > > [@InS\_Hypno](#): > > > > [»] > > (Quote) > > Where does that logic “no nerf” logic even come from? > > Like you think they should’ve left the 2A as is at release and buff everything else? > > Like aren’t you guys complaining about people sliding around and one framing you? > > What do you think is gonna happen from buffing endlessly? > > And no buffing everything doesn’t work it leads to power creep > > Good balancing requires both buffs and nerfs > > Type 2A already nerfed. Its not exactly a great gun outside of Cqb now. However its still doing shotgun job better then shotguns. > > Shotguns cant even one shot outside of melee range and you are keep saying “Shotguns fine”. You call me clueless on the other thread yet you are the actual clueless one. Obviously it wasn’t nerfed enough you guys keep complaining about it Since you bring up that other topic, if you aren’t clueless define skill ceilling and make it work with that very clueless statement you made in that other topic please If melee had a 10m range this game would be unplayable Also I played with shotguns more than you so I probably do have a clue Otherwise you don’t either ---
**Author:** ![TFBisquit](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/f07891/32.png) [@TFBisquit](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/TFBisquit)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 6:09pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/shotgun-adjustments/258265/43 "2020-06-02T18:09:00Z")
Type2A is annoying, but I don’t see people dominating with it. Problem in this game is you get melted by some weapons, grab it yourself, and find it doesn’t melt for you. No buff or nerf is gonna help with that. And buffing/nerfing the same items multiple times isn’t gonna help either. There are many weapons to choose from, and dice wants them all to have a special niche, that doesn’t work either. They all have to be somewhat good. ---
**Author:** ![InS\_Hypno](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/ins_hypno/32/106778_2.png) [@InS\_Hypno](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/InS_Hypno)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 6:20pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/shotgun-adjustments/258265/44 "2020-06-02T18:20:00Z")
buffered message was buffered ---
**Author:** ![Hawxxeye](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/hawxxeye/32/101036_2.png) [@Hawxxeye](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Hawxxeye)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 6:24pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/shotgun-adjustments/258265/45 "2020-06-02T18:24:00Z")
> [@talhaONE](#): > > > [@InS\_Hypno](#): > > > > [»] > > (Quote) > > Where does that logic “no nerf” logic even come from? > > Like you think they should’ve left the 2A as is at release and buff everything else? > > Like aren’t you guys complaining about people sliding around and one framing you? > > What do you think is gonna happen from buffing endlessly? > > And no buffing everything doesn’t work it leads to power creep > > Good balancing requires both buffs and nerfs > > Type 2A already nerfed. Its not exactly a great gun outside of Cqb now. However its still doing shotgun job better then shotguns. > > Shotguns cant even one shot outside of melee range and you are keep saying “Shotguns fine”. You call me clueless on the other thread yet you are the actual clueless one. For example if the weapon was a Type 2A/suommi instead of a model 37, it would had been me who would had gotten these kills instead of assists. [![Video: Is the model 37 really bad or am I doing something wrong](https://battlefieldforum.co/uploads/default/original/3X/4/a/4a4f9b408e45589b646194acb1866617cdc9abf7.jpeg "Is the model 37 really bad or am I doing something wrong") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tOZN-wTWD4) The closer ranged SMGs beat most of the shotguns in reliability and consistency in the same ranges. ---
**Author:** ![InS\_Hypno](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/ins_hypno/32/106778_2.png) [@InS\_Hypno](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/InS_Hypno)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 6:52pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/shotgun-adjustments/258265/46 "2020-06-02T18:52:00Z")
> [@Hawxxeye](#): > > > [@talhaONE](#): > > > > > [@InS\_Hypno](#): > > > > > > [»] > > > (Quote) > > > Where does that logic “no nerf” logic even come from? > > > Like you think they should’ve left the 2A as is at release and buff everything else? > > > Like aren’t you guys complaining about people sliding around and one framing you? > > > What do you think is gonna happen from buffing endlessly? > > > And no buffing everything doesn’t work it leads to power creep > > > Good balancing requires both buffs and nerfs > > > > Type 2A already nerfed. Its not exactly a great gun outside of Cqb now. However its still doing shotgun job better then shotguns. > > > > Shotguns cant even one shot outside of melee range and you are keep saying “Shotguns fine”. You call me clueless on the other thread yet you are the actual clueless one. > > For example if the weapon was a Type 2A/suommi instead of a model 37, it would had been me who would had gotten these kills instead of assists. > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tOZN-wTWD4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tOZN-wTWD4) > > The closer ranged SMGs beat most of the shotguns in reliability and consistency in the same ranges. oh stop sharing that damn video Its literally explained by the fact you’re shooting at prone people without being on center mass ---
**Author:** ![CT1924](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/ct1924/32/106572_2.png) [@CT1924](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/CT1924)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 8:19pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/shotgun-adjustments/258265/47 "2020-06-02T20:19:00Z")
> [@InS\_Hypno](#): > > (Quote) > Where does that logic “no nerf” logic even come from? > Like you think they should’ve left the 2A as is at release and buff everything else? > Like aren’t you guys complaining about people sliding around and one framing you? > What do you think is gonna happen from buffing endlessly? > And no buffing everything doesn’t work it leads to power creep > Good balancing requires both buffs and nerfs > There’s plenty of example of nerfs being the right decision both in this game ( with the 2A being the best example ) and outside of it OK, first off, I am in favour of building a time machine and removing the 2a. Secondly, yes nerfs have a place, I just think a minor buff on its counter usually works better. Yes, both are needed, but I think people call for too many nerfs in general. ---
**Author:** ![CT1924](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/ct1924/32/106572_2.png) [@CT1924](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/CT1924)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 8:21pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/shotgun-adjustments/258265/48 "2020-06-02T20:21:00Z")
> [@InS\_Hypno](#): > > (Quote) > oh stop sharing that damn video > > Its literally explained by the fact you’re shooting at prone people without being on center mass It’s still true. You get one framed by suomi and thompson, even 2a, so it’s true. Go play shotgun without camping and come back after 5 hours. Then we’ll talk. ---
**Author:** ![talhaONE](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/54ee81/32.png) [@talhaONE](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/talhaONE)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 9:27pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/shotgun-adjustments/258265/49 "2020-06-02T21:27:00Z")
> [@InS\_Hypno](#): > > (Quote) > oh stop sharing that damn video > > Its literally explained by the fact you’re shooting at prone people without being on center mass Again you are clueless about how shotgun pellet distribution works in bf5. ---
**Author:** ![InS\_Hypno](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/ins_hypno/32/106778_2.png) [@InS\_Hypno](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/InS_Hypno)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 10:37pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/shotgun-adjustments/258265/50 "2020-06-02T22:37:00Z")
> [@CT1924](#): > > > [@InS\_Hypno](#): > > > > (Quote) > > oh stop sharing that damn video > > > > Its literally explained by the fact you’re shooting at prone people without being on center mass > > It’s still true. You get one framed by suomi and thompson, even 2a, so it’s true. Go play shotgun without camping and come back after 5 hours. Then we’ll talk. I do have 5 hours played with the model 37 I have 3 kills per minute with it so safe to say I don’t camp with it Also played with the m1897 for 4 hours only with slugs They are definitely fine ---
**Author:** ![TyroneLoyd\_TV](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/tyroneloyd_tv/32/103927_2.png) [@TyroneLoyd\_TV](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/TyroneLoyd_TV)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 10:39pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/shotgun-adjustments/258265/51 "2020-06-02T22:39:00Z")
Shotguns are fine. ---
**Author:** ![talhaONE](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/54ee81/32.png) [@talhaONE](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/talhaONE)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 10:45pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/shotgun-adjustments/258265/52 "2020-06-02T22:45:00Z")
> [@TyroneLoyd\_TV](#): > > Shotguns are fine. “ShOtGuNs ArE fInE” How about back up your claim a bit? ---
**Author:** ![TyroneLoyd\_TV](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/tyroneloyd_tv/32/103927_2.png) [@TyroneLoyd\_TV](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/TyroneLoyd_TV)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 10:53pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/shotgun-adjustments/258265/53 "2020-06-02T22:53:00Z")
> [@talhaONE](#): > > > [@TyroneLoyd\_TV](#): > > > > Shotguns are fine. > > “ShOtGuNs ArE fInE” > > How about back up your claim a bit? Ok [![Video: I'm a werido](https://battlefieldforum.co/uploads/default/original/3X/0/d/0dd1b4afe9fcbe64c4bcbb591a80a2bc8b4401a8.jpeg "I'm a werido") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TawiZQ0xQbE) https://player.twitch.tv/?video=v393579939&parent=battlefieldforum.co&autoplay=false I can pull alot more if I need to. Either way they do exactly what I need them to in there niche. If you have a soumi or 2a your not out shooting me in its intended range. Guaranteed ---
**Author:** ![talhaONE](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/54ee81/32.png) [@talhaONE](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/talhaONE)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 11:01pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/shotgun-adjustments/258265/54 "2020-06-02T23:01:00Z")
> [@TyroneLoyd\_TV](#): > > > [@talhaONE](#): > > > > > [@TyroneLoyd\_TV](#): > > > > > > Shotguns are fine. > > > > “ShOtGuNs ArE fInE” > > > > How about back up your claim a bit? > > Ok > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TawiZQ0xQbE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TawiZQ0xQbE) > > [Twitch](http://www.twitch.tv/tyroneloyd/v/393579939?sr=a&t=0s) > > I can pull alot more if I need to. > Either way they do exactly what I need them to in there niche. If you have a soumi or 2a your not out shooting me in its intended range. Guaranteed Wow. A metro match completely stacked to one side is definetely a way define shotguns are fine. Still there are plenty of shots that didnt result in one shot in very close ranges. I know model 37 has highest firerate but even for a fastest firerate shotgun the range is just bad. ---
**Author:** ![InS\_Hypno](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/ins_hypno/32/106778_2.png) [@InS\_Hypno](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/InS_Hypno)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 11:01pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/shotgun-adjustments/258265/55 "2020-06-02T23:01:00Z")
> [@TyroneLoyd\_TV](#): > > > [@talhaONE](#): > > > > [»] > > > > > [@TyroneLoyd\_TV](#): > > > > > > [»] > > > Shotguns are fine. > > > > “ShOtGuNs ArE fInE” > > > > How about back up your claim a bit? > > Ok > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TawiZQ0xQbE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TawiZQ0xQbE) > > [Twitch](http://www.twitch.tv/tyroneloyd/v/393579939?sr=a&t=0s) > > I can pull alot more if I need to. > Either way they do exactly what I need them to in there niche. If you have a soumi or 2a your not out shooting me in its intended range. Guaranteed Thank you, I wish I could record stuff to prove my point but my PC is to weak to handle the game ( it already struggle with the game alone ) and recording at the same time It’s safe to say shotguns are effective when the player himself is effective There’s a reason people who complain about shotgun consistency have bad accuracy Also it validate my claim that the guy using video didn’t kill those people because they were prone (look at 0:49) ---
**Author:** ![InS\_Hypno](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/ins_hypno/32/106778_2.png) [@InS\_Hypno](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/InS_Hypno)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 11:08pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/shotgun-adjustments/258265/56 "2020-06-02T23:08:00Z")
> [@talhaONE](#): > > > [@TyroneLoyd\_TV](#): > > > > [»] > > > > > [@talhaONE](#): > > > > > > [»] > > > > > > > [@TyroneLoyd\_TV](#): > > > > > > > > [»] > > > > Shotguns are fine. > > > > > > “ShOtGuNs ArE fInE” > > > > > > How about back up your claim a bit? > > > > Ok > > > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TawiZQ0xQbE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TawiZQ0xQbE) > > > > [Twitch](http://www.twitch.tv/tyroneloyd/v/393579939?sr=a&t=0s) > > > > I can pull alot more if I need to. > > Either way they do exactly what I need them to in there niche. If you have a soumi or 2a your not out shooting me in its intended range. Guaranteed > > Wow. A metro match completely stacked to one side is definetely a way define shotguns are fine. > > Still there are plenty of shots that didnt result in one shot in very close ranges. I know model 37 has highest firerate but even for a fastest firerate shotgun the range is just bad. Why am I not surprised your dismissing and doubling down ? ---
**Author:** ![TyroneLoyd\_TV](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/tyroneloyd_tv/32/103927_2.png) [@TyroneLoyd\_TV](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/TyroneLoyd_TV)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 11:14pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/shotgun-adjustments/258265/57 "2020-06-02T23:14:00Z")
> [@talhaONE](#): > > > [@TyroneLoyd\_TV](#): > > > > > [@talhaONE](#): > > > > > > > [@TyroneLoyd\_TV](#): > > > > > > > > Shotguns are fine. > > > > > > “ShOtGuNs ArE fInE” > > > > > > How about back up your claim a bit? > > > > Ok > > > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TawiZQ0xQbE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TawiZQ0xQbE) > > > > [Twitch](http://www.twitch.tv/tyroneloyd/v/393579939?sr=a&t=0s) > > > > I can pull alot more if I need to. > > Either way they do exactly what I need them to in there niche. If you have a soumi or 2a your not out shooting me in its intended range. Guaranteed > > Wow. A metro match completely stacked to one side is definetely a way define shotguns are fine. > > Still there are plenty of shots that didnt result in one shot in very close ranges. I know model 37 has highest firerate but even for a fastest firerate shotgun the range is just bad. You do know I can reproduce this on plenty of maps? It’s not about 1 shotting someone (which people apparently don’t understand)as is with all weapons positioning and engagement ranges/ windows matter the most. You could have the worst weapon in the game and still play well. I’m stating the shotguns fit a specific niche which doesn’t need to change as it would approach even worse levels of frustration as fast firing smgs do. 10m is enough in this game to be effective if positioned correctly with a shotgun. Same with smgs 10-20ish is “somewhat” enough to be effective. Autos 15 to 35. semi’s etc. I feel like alot of players dont have great range management and shot placement and it shows up in videos. For myself I’m always making those adjustments mentally or even out loud on stream which is why I’m always confused at least for shotguns as to why they need a buff even though they feel strong enough in my hands to compete with the best players using smgs. ---
**Author:** ![talhaONE](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/54ee81/32.png) [@talhaONE](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/talhaONE)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 11:24pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/shotgun-adjustments/258265/58 "2020-06-02T23:24:00Z")
> [@TyroneLoyd\_TV](#): > > > [@talhaONE](#): > > > > > [@TyroneLoyd\_TV](#): > > > > > > > [@talhaONE](#): > > > > > > > > > [@TyroneLoyd\_TV](#): > > > > > > > > > > Shotguns are fine. > > > > > > > > “ShOtGuNs ArE fInE” > > > > > > > > How about back up your claim a bit? > > > > > > Ok > > > > > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TawiZQ0xQbE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TawiZQ0xQbE) > > > > > > [Twitch](http://www.twitch.tv/tyroneloyd/v/393579939?sr=a&t=0s) > > > > > > I can pull alot more if I need to. > > > Either way they do exactly what I need them to in there niche. If you have a soumi or 2a your not out shooting me in its intended range. Guaranteed > > > > Wow. A metro match completely stacked to one side is definetely a way define shotguns are fine. > > > > Still there are plenty of shots that didnt result in one shot in very close ranges. I know model 37 has highest firerate but even for a fastest firerate shotgun the range is just bad. > > You do know I can reproduce this on plenty of maps? It’s not about 1 shotting (which people apparently don’t understand) someone as is with all weapons positioning and engagement ranges/ windows matter the most. You could have the worst weapon in the game and still play well. I’m stating the shotguns fit a specific niche which doesn’t need to change as it would approach even worse levels of frustration as fast firing smgs do. 10m is enough in this game to be effective if positioned corrected with a shotgun. Same with smgs 10-20ish is “somewhat” enough to be effective. Autos 15 to 35. semi’s etc. I feel like alot of players dont have great range management and shot placement and it shows up in videos. > > For myself I’m always making those adjustments mentally or even out loud on stream which is why I’m always confused at least for shotguns as to why they need a buff even though they feel strong enough in my hands to compete with the best players using smgs. Because thats how you feel. Good players will do good no matter what. I bet you would perform slightly better if you were using a suomi in there. I do well with MMGs despite they are actually weak. Also 10 meters is way too close to reach comfortable outside of metro. Shotguns in early titles has a lot more ranges, still they were nowhere near op. ---
**Author:** ![InS\_Hypno](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/ins_hypno/32/106778_2.png) [@InS\_Hypno](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/InS_Hypno)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 11:31pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/shotgun-adjustments/258265/59 "2020-06-02T23:31:00Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Because thats how you feel. Good players will do good no matter what. I bet you would perform slightly better if you were using a suomi in there. I do well with MMGs despite they are actually weak. So it is a skill problem rather than gun problem? And don’t bring your MMG camping in deathmatch as an argument of “doing good” ---
**Author:** ![TyroneLoyd\_TV](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/tyroneloyd_tv/32/103927_2.png) [@TyroneLoyd\_TV](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/TyroneLoyd_TV)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 11:35pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/shotgun-adjustments/258265/60 "2020-06-02T23:35:00Z")
> [@talhaONE](#): > > > [@TyroneLoyd\_TV](#): > > > > > [@talhaONE](#): > > > > > > > [@TyroneLoyd\_TV](#): > > > > > > > > > [@talhaONE](#): > > > > > > > > > > > [@TyroneLoyd\_TV](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > Shotguns are fine. > > > > > > > > > > “ShOtGuNs ArE fInE” > > > > > > > > > > How about back up your claim a bit? > > > > > > > > Ok > > > > > > > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TawiZQ0xQbE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TawiZQ0xQbE) > > > > > > > > [Twitch](http://www.twitch.tv/tyroneloyd/v/393579939?sr=a&t=0s) > > > > > > > > I can pull alot more if I need to. > > > > Either way they do exactly what I need them to in there niche. If you have a soumi or 2a your not out shooting me in its intended range. Guaranteed > > > > > > Wow. A metro match completely stacked to one side is definetely a way define shotguns are fine. > > > > > > Still there are plenty of shots that didnt result in one shot in very close ranges. I know model 37 has highest firerate but even for a fastest firerate shotgun the range is just bad. > > > > You do know I can reproduce this on plenty of maps? It’s not about 1 shotting (which people apparently don’t understand) someone as is with all weapons positioning and engagement ranges/ windows matter the most. You could have the worst weapon in the game and still play well. I’m stating the shotguns fit a specific niche which doesn’t need to change as it would approach even worse levels of frustration as fast firing smgs do. 10m is enough in this game to be effective if positioned corrected with a shotgun. Same with smgs 10-20ish is “somewhat” enough to be effective. Autos 15 to 35. semi’s etc. I feel like alot of players dont have great range management and shot placement and it shows up in videos. > > > > For myself I’m always making those adjustments mentally or even out loud on stream which is why I’m always confused at least for shotguns as to why they need a buff even though they feel strong enough in my hands to compete with the best players using smgs. > > Because thats how you feel. Good players will do good no matter what. I bet you would perform slightly better if you were using a suomi in there. I do well with MMGs despite they are actually weak. > > Also 10 meters is way too close to reach comfortable outside of metro. Shotguns in early titles has a lot more ranges, still they were nowhere near op. I disagree most of my high kill games on that map were with shotguns (140 with a model 37) What you seem to be missing is the fact that I have used smgs in the same range and wasnt as successful because its a different style of play along with it taking longer to kill someone compared to a 1 tap range a shotgun has between 0-10m. You cant confuse the ttd with the ttk. You just cant man. [Previous page](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/shotgun-adjustments/258265.md?page=2) [Next page](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/shotgun-adjustments/258265.md?page=4)