# the kill-trade is out of control. ruined the game! **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 10, 2017, 1:54am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/the-kill-trade-is-out-of-control-ruined-the-game/259119 "2017-05-10T01:54:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BGHFlakjacket](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/bghflakjacket/32/101328_2.png) [@BGHFlakjacket](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/BGHFlakjacket)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 12:14am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/the-kill-trade-is-out-of-control-ruined-the-game/259119/41 "2017-05-12T00:14:00Z")
After playing today I found that 20% of my deaths are kill trades. My high was 4 kill trades out of 14 deaths. It is far too prevalent to be any fun. ---
**Author:** ![Rev0verDrive](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@Rev0verDrive](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Rev0verDrive)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 12:21am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/the-kill-trade-is-out-of-control-ruined-the-game/259119/42 "2017-05-12T00:21:00Z")
> [@BGHFlakjacket](#): > > After playing today I found that 20% of my deaths are kill trades. My high was 4 kill trades out of 14 deaths. It is far too prevalent to be any fun. Latency sucks. ---
**Author:** ![BGHFlakjacket](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/bghflakjacket/32/101328_2.png) [@BGHFlakjacket](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/BGHFlakjacket)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 12:31am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/the-kill-trade-is-out-of-control-ruined-the-game/259119/43 "2017-05-12T00:31:00Z")
> [@Rev0verDrive](#): > > > [@BGHFlakjacket](#): > > > > After playing today I found that 20% of my deaths are kill trades. My high was 4 kill trades out of 14 deaths. It is far too prevalent to be any fun. > > Latency sucks. I run 15 on West Coast and 80 on East Coast consistently. My hookup on West coast is usually the best in the game. ---
**Author:** ![disposalist](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@disposalist](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/disposalist)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 1:17am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/the-kill-trade-is-out-of-control-ruined-the-game/259119/44 "2017-05-12T01:17:00Z")
> [@BGHFlakjacket](#): > > After playing today I found that 20% of my deaths are kill trades. My high was 4 kill trades out of 14 deaths. It is far too prevalent to be any fun. You need to stop throwing yourself into dangerous face-to-face combat without thought to your safety and hoping for the old kill-them-first-to-miraculously-not-die thing. Adapt. Use some real tactics like finding cover, using movement and position, waiting for your teammates. If you _are_ being careful then you’ve just been very unlucky. I haven’t had anything like that proportion of trades. ---
**Author:** ![BGHFlakjacket](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/bghflakjacket/32/101328_2.png) [@BGHFlakjacket](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/BGHFlakjacket)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 1:34am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/the-kill-trade-is-out-of-control-ruined-the-game/259119/45 "2017-05-12T01:34:00Z")
> [@disposalist](#): > > > [@BGHFlakjacket](#): > > > > After playing today I found that 20% of my deaths are kill trades. My high was 4 kill trades out of 14 deaths. It is far too prevalent to be any fun. > > You need to stop throwing yourself into dangerous face-to-face combat without thought to your safety and hoping for the old kill-them-first-to-miraculously-not-die thing. Adapt. Use some real tactics like finding cover, using movement and position, waiting for your teammates. > > If you _are_ being careful then you’ve just been very unlucky. I haven’t had anything like that proportion of trades. Hmmmm, so I should camp on a hill? I play the objective and cap flags. It is hard to avoid CQB while doing this. ---
**Author:** ![Quijotesco24](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/q/ee7513/32.png) [@Quijotesco24](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Quijotesco24)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 1:45am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/the-kill-trade-is-out-of-control-ruined-the-game/259119/46 "2017-05-12T01:45:00Z")
I’m the first not being happy with the spring update changes. Also I’m getting around 3/4 trade kills on every match. I think It favors a lot low ping players. But after 2 weeks playing with trade-kill system I think is a great new feature to the game. No more bullets dissapering mid air is nice. It’s fair. Don’t Care if I get killed more because of it but any new change that brings fairness to the table is welcomed. ---
**Author:** ![foff667](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/f/8dc957/32.png) [@foff667](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/foff667)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 1:50am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/the-kill-trade-is-out-of-control-ruined-the-game/259119/47 "2017-05-12T01:50:00Z")
> [@BGHFlakjacket](#): > > > [@disposalist](#): > > > > > [@BGHFlakjacket](#): > > > > > > After playing today I found that 20% of my deaths are kill trades. My high was 4 kill trades out of 14 deaths. It is far too prevalent to be any fun. > > > > You need to stop throwing yourself into dangerous face-to-face combat without thought to your safety and hoping for the old kill-them-first-to-miraculously-not-die thing. Adapt. Use some real tactics like finding cover, using movement and position, waiting for your teammates. > > > > If you _are_ being careful then you’ve just been very unlucky. I haven’t had anything like that proportion of trades. > > Hmmmm, so I should camp on a hill? I play the objective and cap flags. It is hard to avoid CQB while doing this. pretty much. I’ve also had a good proportion of kill trades maybe 50% of my deaths though I’m probably overestimating. I’ve kill traded with someone with a melee weapon, shot guns, etc. How fun is that, landing 3 shots with mondragon on someone, killing them but they one shot kill you with a shotgun kill trade, yeah fun times. ---
**Author:** ![foff667](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/f/8dc957/32.png) [@foff667](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/foff667)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 2:16am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/the-kill-trade-is-out-of-control-ruined-the-game/259119/48 "2017-05-12T02:16:00Z")
speak of the devil it looks like they are tweaking the kill trade system in CTE currently. ---
**Author:** ![BGHFlakjacket](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/bghflakjacket/32/101328_2.png) [@BGHFlakjacket](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/BGHFlakjacket)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 2:43am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/the-kill-trade-is-out-of-control-ruined-the-game/259119/49 "2017-05-12T02:43:00Z")
> [@foff667](#): > > speak of the devil it looks like they are tweaking the kill trade system in CTE currently. Sadly they are waiting for CTE to fix it. ---
**Author:** ![jmgargoyle1](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/jmgargoyle1/32/102405_2.png) [@jmgargoyle1](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/jmgargoyle1)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 3:32am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/the-kill-trade-is-out-of-control-ruined-the-game/259119/50 "2017-05-12T03:32:00Z")
Cte is probably working on the melee kill trade under 30 m. Mentioned above… ---
**Author:** ![Rev0verDrive](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@Rev0verDrive](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Rev0verDrive)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 3:50am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/the-kill-trade-is-out-of-control-ruined-the-game/259119/51 "2017-05-12T03:50:00Z")
@BGHFlakjacket I was just saying that Latency is one of the largest determiners of who wins the fight first. Weapon RPM, Muzzle Velocity, Distance, Latency (UTT) RPM dictates the minimum delay between shots. ```auto shot_delay_interval = 1000 / (RPM/60); ``` Muzzle velocity dictates bullet travel time to target. ```auto meters_per_ms = (1000 / Velocity); Bullet_TT= meters_per_ms * Distance; // milliseconds ``` Packet travel time one way; client → server, vice versa. ```auto UTT = Latency / 2; ``` Automatico (900RPM, 380m/s) ```auto shot_delay_interval = 1000 / (900/60); // 66.66ms meters_per_ms = (1000 / 380); // 2.63 ``` MP 18 (550RPM, 420m/s) ```auto shot_delay_interval = 1000 / (550/60); // 109.09ms meters_per_ms = 1000 / 420; // 2.38 ``` Distance between players 6m, all shots hit (100% accuracy). Both players start shooting full auto at the same time. Client A - Timeline firing sequence - Automatico, 30ms ping ```auto Hit registration time = time of firing + (meters_per_ms * distance) + Client A UTT + Processing time e.g. 66.66 + (2.63 * 6) + 15 + 1 = 98.44ms ``` s1 fired at 0.00ms: hits at 15.78ms, Server Registers hit at 31.78ms, sent to client B (30ms), Client B receives damage/hit data at 61.78ms s2 fired at 66.66ms: hits at 82.44ms, Server Registers hit at 98.44ms, sent to client B (30ms), Client B receives damage/hit data at 128.44ms s3 fired at 133.32ms: hits at 149.1ms, Server Registers hit at 165.1ms, sent to client B (30ms), Client B receives damage/hit data at 195.1ms s4 fired at 199.98ms: hits at 215.76ms, Server Registers hit at 231.76ms, sent to client B (30ms), Client B receives damage/hit data at 261.76ms s5 fired at 266.64ms: hits at 282.42ms, Server Registers hit at 298.42ms, sent to client B (30ms), Client B receives damage/hit data at 328.42ms Client B - Timeline firing sequence - MP 18, 60ms ping ```auto Hit registration time = time of firing + (meters_per_ms * distance) + Client B UTT + Processing time e.g. 109.09 + (2.38 * 6) + 30 + 1 = 154.37ms ``` s1 fired at 0.00ms: hits at 14.28ms, Server Registers hit at 45.28ms, sent to client A (30ms), Client A receives damage/hit data at 60.28ms s2 fired at 109.09ms, hits at 123.37ms, Server Registers hit at 154.37ms, sent to client A (30ms), Client A receives damage/hit data at 169.37ms s3 fired at 218.18ms, hits at 232.46ms, Server Registers hit at 263.47ms, sent to client A (30ms), Client A receives damage/hit data at 278.46ms s4 fired at 327.27ms, Shot nullified, do to death prior to shot being fired. Client B doesn’t know s/he is dead until 328.42ms Client B is officially registered dead on the server at 298.42ms You can fiddle with the first shot times to see the different outcomes. All four of these variables (Weapon RPM, Muzzle Velocity, Distance, Latency (UTT)) play a vital role in determining the outcome of every fire fight. Obviously Damage is a vital component, yet for the example I used 6m providing a maximum 23 dmg per hit for both weapons. The point is to highlight that it’s not all about who fired first. It’s about who gets registered by the server first. ---
**Author:** ![disposalist](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@disposalist](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/disposalist)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 10:13am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/the-kill-trade-is-out-of-control-ruined-the-game/259119/52 "2017-05-12T10:13:00Z")
> [@BGHFlakjacket](#): > > > [@disposalist](#): > > > > > [@BGHFlakjacket](#): > > > > > > After playing today I found that 20% of my deaths are kill trades. My high was 4 kill trades out of 14 deaths. It is far too prevalent to be any fun. > > > > You need to stop throwing yourself into dangerous face-to-face combat without thought to your safety and hoping for the old kill-them-first-to-miraculously-not-die thing. Adapt. Use some real tactics like finding cover, using movement and position, waiting for your teammates. > > > > If you _are_ being careful then you’ve just been very unlucky. I haven’t had anything like that proportion of trades. > > Hmmmm, so I should camp on a hill? I play the objective and cap flags. It is hard to avoid CQB while doing this. You can PTFO without running at the enemy like a headless chicken relying on reaction time and evaporating bullets. ---
**Author:** ![disposalist](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@disposalist](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/disposalist)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 10:22am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/the-kill-trade-is-out-of-control-ruined-the-game/259119/53 "2017-05-12T10:22:00Z")
> [@foff667](#): > > > [@BGHFlakjacket](#): > > > > > [@disposalist](#): > > > > > > > [@BGHFlakjacket](#): > > > > > > > > After playing today I found that 20% of my deaths are kill trades. My high was 4 kill trades out of 14 deaths. It is far too prevalent to be any fun. > > > > > > You need to stop throwing yourself into dangerous face-to-face combat without thought to your safety and hoping for the old kill-them-first-to-miraculously-not-die thing. Adapt. Use some real tactics like finding cover, using movement and position, waiting for your teammates. > > > > > > If you _are_ being careful then you’ve just been very unlucky. I haven’t had anything like that proportion of trades. > > > > Hmmmm, so I should camp on a hill? I play the objective and cap flags. It is hard to avoid CQB while doing this. > > pretty much. I’ve also had a good proportion of kill trades maybe 50% of my deaths though I’m probably overestimating. I’ve kill traded with someone with a melee weapon, shot guns, etc. How fun is that, landing 3 shots with mondragon on someone, killing them but they one shot kill you with a shotgun kill trade, yeah fun times. You’re utterly ignoring half of what I posted. Kill trades happen when the enemy **got the kill shot on you**. You fired and they fired within 0.025 seconds of each other. You both made the kill shot. It is what happened. Let’s explain it from the other direction and see if it gets through: - You didn’t like dying even though it was fair? Before the kill trade fix, the enemy would have made their killing shot - pulled the trigger, heard the shot, seen the muzzle flash - should have killed you - and not got the kill! Happened to me a lot. A damned sight less fun than a fair kill trade. If it spoils your fun to die, then Battlefield is not for you is it? You die, you respawn. Most of us like a fair game. You both make the killing shot while you are alive? You both die. ---
**Author:** ![Private\_UMPalot](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/private_umpalot/32/103169_2.png) [@Private\_UMPalot](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Private_UMPalot)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 10:29am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/the-kill-trade-is-out-of-control-ruined-the-game/259119/54 "2017-05-12T10:29:00Z")
On conquest i only get 1 or 2 kill trades a round, and that’s when i get top for flag caps or defends. You must be unaware or unlucky in your surroundings. I guess in Dom or TDM you would see it more. I don’t play those modes so cannot say. ---
**Author:** ![disposalist](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@disposalist](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/disposalist)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 10:30am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/the-kill-trade-is-out-of-control-ruined-the-game/259119/55 "2017-05-12T10:30:00Z")
> [@Rev0verDrive](#): > > The point is to highlight that it’s not all about who fired first. It’s about who gets registered by the server first. Of course latency comes into it. Latency comes into every bullet fired. Latency means that people get hit when they strictly shouldn’t have been, whether or not they were also shooting at someone. DICE can tweak with it and no doubt will, but as I’ve said above, if you want to add some challenging, realistic and beneficial (subjectively I suppose) tactics, then not only should bullets not disappear, but triggers should be held for seconds after that mortal wound. A couple of hundred milliseconds of overlap is immaterial to what is fair when the bullets are flying. Do you think if two real soldiers stand up from cover at the same time and start firing there isn’t a more than good chance they will both be killed? 200ms would make no difference. Either way it comes down to one thing: do you want combat that is more dangerous and requires more respect, thought and tactics or do you want to stick with the established eSports magical disappearing bullets combat because it’s what you’re used to? ---
**Author:** ![GRIZZ11283](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/grizz11283/32/102128_2.png) [@GRIZZ11283](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/GRIZZ11283)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 10:37am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/the-kill-trade-is-out-of-control-ruined-the-game/259119/56 "2017-05-12T10:37:00Z")
The ones wanting it removed are gods and never lost a gunfight until this was introduced. K/D is king in their eyes. ---
**Author:** ![disposalist](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@disposalist](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/disposalist)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 10:46am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/the-kill-trade-is-out-of-control-ruined-the-game/259119/57 "2017-05-12T10:46:00Z")
> [@GRIZZ11283](#): > > The ones wanting it removed are gods and never lost a gunfight until this was introduced. > K/D is king in their eyes. Well, I wouldn’t put it quite like that, but I’d say, yes, it seems some aren’t really prioritising fairness or the quality of game mechanics in their objections. ---
**Author:** ![foff667](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/f/8dc957/32.png) [@foff667](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/foff667)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 12:20pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/the-kill-trade-is-out-of-control-ruined-the-game/259119/58 "2017-05-12T12:20:00Z")
game mechanics lol I love all the people that cry that its fair now but wasn’t before, so how is it if I hit someone with a sniper rifle from 60m out and get a 60 damage marker and in the meantime while I’m switching to my secondary the person I shot simply puts 4 or 5 rounds from an assault rifle or 1 from a shotgun in me for the win how exactly is that fair or a good game mechanic? I mean if I shoot someone in their shooting arm shouldn’t they not be able to fire their weapon until they switch arms? Games are games, there might be a smidgen of realize in them but in the end they are a game. And in a GAME there should be a winner & a loser not two “winners” or two “losers” I will reiterate they removed kill trading from BF4 in the end, why put it back in BF1? Just to be different? Its a horrible mechanic IMO and we’re all entitled to our opinions even if you guys are all wrong 😉 ---
**Author:** ![GRIZZ11283](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/grizz11283/32/102128_2.png) [@GRIZZ11283](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/GRIZZ11283)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 12:22pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/the-kill-trade-is-out-of-control-ruined-the-game/259119/59 "2017-05-12T12:22:00Z")
> [@foff667](#): > > game mechanics lol > > I love all the people that cry that its fair now but wasn’t before, so how is it if I hit someone with a sniper rifle from 60m out and get a 60 damage marker and in the meantime while I’m switching to my secondary the person I shot simply puts 4 or 5 rounds from an assault rifle or 1 from a shotgun in me for the win how exactly is that fair or a good game mechanic? I mean if I shoot someone in their shooting arm shouldn’t they not be able to fire their weapon until they switch arms? Games are games, there might be a smidgen of realize in them but in the end they are a game. And in a GAME there should be a winner & a loser not two “winners” or two “losers” > > I will reiterate they removed kill trading from BF4 in the end, why put it back in BF1? Just to be different? Its a horrible mechanic IMO and we’re all entitled to our opinions even if you guys are all wrong 😉 Please explain how bullets disappearing is actually good? ---
**Author:** ![olavafar](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/olavafar/32/101046_2.png) [@olavafar](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/olavafar)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 12:27pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/the-kill-trade-is-out-of-control-ruined-the-game/259119/60 "2017-05-12T12:27:00Z")
They should make it an option. If I have trade on I get a trade (when applicable). If I have it off, I be sorted last in the player list so that I will lose the gunfights and my bullets will be deleted. If two players with the option off meets, program will pick a random winner. Problem solved and everybody happy. [Previous page](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/the-kill-trade-is-out-of-control-ruined-the-game/259119.md?page=2) [Next page](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/the-kill-trade-is-out-of-control-ruined-the-game/259119.md?page=4)