# Why is the Autoloading 8.25 Extended used way more than the Chauchat? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 12, 2018, 6:15am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/why-is-the-autoloading-8-25-extended-used-way-more-than-the-chauchat/103444 "2018-08-12T06:15:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bapman63](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/bapman63/32/101289_2.png) [@bapman63](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/bapman63)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 1:18pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/why-is-the-autoloading-8-25-extended-used-way-more-than-the-chauchat/103444/21 "2018-08-14T13:18:00Z")
This is one of the silliest threads ever, people want to play as a medic so they use medic weapons, people who want to play as support use support weapons. People choose the class then use the weapons in that class, nuff said. ---
**Author:** ![RavenousTithe](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@RavenousTithe](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/RavenousTithe)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 1:47pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/why-is-the-autoloading-8-25-extended-used-way-more-than-the-chauchat/103444/22 "2018-08-14T13:47:00Z")
Well honestly this is a cool detailed comparison and I appreciate the time you took to do it. I use both weapons regularly. I think as others have stated, the usage numbers reflect the DLC gap and the psychology of feeling a smaller mag is a disadvantage for LMGs. One could argue that the Sho Sho is the most versatile Support weapon in the game, as it only struggles for kills at extreme ranges. It is my second most used LMG and it performs exceptionally on all maps and game modes. The .25 is snappy and for run n gun medic it’s hard to beat. I think it outperforms the other SLRs in TTK out to like 16 or 20m? ---
**Author:** ![robmcewen](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/robmcewen/32/102169_2.png) [@robmcewen](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/robmcewen)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 1:48pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/why-is-the-autoloading-8-25-extended-used-way-more-than-the-chauchat/103444/23 "2018-08-14T13:48:00Z")
> [@bapman63](#): > > This is one of the silliest threads ever, people want to play as a medic so they use medic weapons, people who want to play as support use support weapons. People choose the class then use the weapons in that class, nuff said. I don’t know, next time I’m playing medic I’m going to swap the Autoloader for the Chauchat. ---
**Author:** ![Ploodovic](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Ploodovic](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Ploodovic)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 2:11pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/why-is-the-autoloading-8-25-extended-used-way-more-than-the-chauchat/103444/24 "2018-08-14T14:11:00Z")
> [@bapman63](#): > > This is one of the silliest threads ever, people want to play as a medic so they use medic weapons, people who want to play as support use support weapons. People choose the class then use the weapons in that class, nuff said. While I can’t speak for OP, I believe their train of thought, when choosing weapons, is like this: “what weapon characteristics do I want today?” And, depending on the answer, they will choose the class were the weapon with those characteristics is available in. That is not at all how I choose weapons. First, I think: “now, what CLASS do I want to play today?” And, depending on the answer, I choose a weapon available in that class that fits my mood and the map. If you think like me, a comparison between different classes’ weapons is totally irrelevant, for choosing a weapon. OP: > [@lessthanjake123](#): > > If I want to play as a Medic, I’d obviously rather use the Autoloading 8 Extended than the Chauchat. Well, then. I guess it’s settled. ---
**Author:** ![The\_BERG\_366](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/the_berg_366/32/101051_2.png) [@The\_BERG\_366](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/The_BERG_366)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 3:39pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/why-is-the-autoloading-8-25-extended-used-way-more-than-the-chauchat/103444/25 "2018-08-14T15:39:00Z")
@lessthanjake123 I wanna explain to you a few things that I saw u post that don’t quite work and that might be the answer to your question. First off of course the biggest factors are the different classes and one of the guns being a dlc weapon while the other one isn’t. however that doesn’t tell the whole story as the chauchat should still see more use if those where the only factors. first odd two things I wanna mention: 1. the “base spread while moving” value is kind of linearily dependent to the movement speed of a player while the values that u can see on symthic is the value for maximum movement speed (this is the maximum movement speed while not running so it refers to the speed your soldier has when u simoly push your left stick forward). now when u side starve or whatevee while adsed your movement speed is significantly lower. in bf4 sidestraving speed whole adsed with non-bullpup weapons was less than 50% of the maximum speed. now I don’t know about the values in this game but based on my personal experience I wouldnt expect it to be more than 50% of the maximum speed. therefore basespread while moving in most actual in game scenarios is actually a lot lower than the value on symthic which is the one u used for your calculations. the real value is between the min spread while standing still and the min spread value while moving on symthic where the value is changing linearly to the movement speed. 2. u say that while shooting at 324 rpm the chauchat won’t add any additional spread. Well yeah while standing still thst is true. however this value drops down to about 247rpm when moving. this is a number that will easily be exceeded in game in more hectic situations. and as the gun has such a high spread decrease it should be clear what happens if you exceed the theoretical max firerate: the spread goes out of the roof really quickly. now why is the 8.25 so much more popular. additionally to the reasons mentioned in the beginning 1. shows us that the spread values of the 8.25 while moving compared to the chauchat are actually absolutely and more importantly also relatively better than how u described them. furtherly tapfiring with the chauchat is not as effective in actual in game scenarios as it might look, showed in 2. finally the first few shots, especially with low rpm guns, are the most important ones. u can’t afford to miss one of your first 3 shots with a chauchat as it essentially increases your ttk by 50%. and giving the nature of the chauchats spread it is clear why its not very reliable on the first few shots. pair this with the slow ads time and the fact that it was a really bad weapon at one point and you have your reason why. ---
**Author:** ![xenome111](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/x/8edcca/32.png) [@xenome111](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/xenome111)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 9:20pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/why-is-the-autoloading-8-25-extended-used-way-more-than-the-chauchat/103444/26 "2018-08-14T21:20:00Z")
Actually if u want to tap fire in support class use the huot low weight not the optical version. Trust me if u want slr accuracy with full rof in support class. ---
**Author:** ![lessthanjake123](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/l/73ab20/32.png) [@lessthanjake123](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/lessthanjake123)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 12:04am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/why-is-the-autoloading-8-25-extended-used-way-more-than-the-chauchat/103444/27 "2018-08-15T00:04:00Z")
> [@The\_BERG\_366](#): > > @lessthanjake123 > I wanna explain to you a few things that I saw u post that don’t quite work and that might be the answer to your question. First off of course the biggest factors are the different classes and one of the guns being a dlc weapon while the other one isn’t. however that doesn’t tell the whole story as the chauchat should still see more use if those where the only factors. > > first odd two things I wanna mention: > > 1. the “base spread while moving” value is kind of linearily dependent to the movement speed of a player while the values that u can see on symthic is the value for maximum movement speed (this is the maximum movement speed while not running so it refers to the speed your soldier has when u simoly push your left stick forward). now when u side starve or whatevee while adsed your movement speed is significantly lower. in bf4 sidestraving speed whole adsed with non-bullpup weapons was less than 50% of the maximum speed. now I don’t know about the values in this game but based on my personal experience I wouldnt expect it to be more than 50% of the maximum speed. therefore basespread while moving in most actual in game scenarios is actually a lot lower than the value on symthic which is the one u used for your calculations. the real value is between the min spread while standing still and the min spread value while moving on symthic where the value is changing linearly to the movement speed. > > 2. u say that while shooting at 324 rpm the chauchat won’t add any additional spread. Well yeah while standing still thst is true. however this value drops down to about 247rpm when moving. this is a number that will easily be exceeded in game in more hectic situations. and as the gun has such a high spread decrease it should be clear what happens if you exceed the theoretical max firerate: the spread goes out of the roof really quickly. > > now why is the 8.25 so much more popular. additionally to the reasons mentioned in the beginning 1. shows us that the spread values of the 8.25 while moving compared to the chauchat are actually absolutely and more importantly also relatively better than how u described them. furtherly tapfiring with the chauchat is not as effective in actual in game scenarios as it might look, showed in 2. finally the first few shots, especially with low rpm guns, are the most important ones. u can’t afford to miss one of your first 3 shots with a chauchat as it essentially increases your ttk by 50%. and giving the nature of the chauchats spread it is clear why its not very reliable on the first few shots. pair this with the slow ads time and the fact that it was a really bad weapon at one point and you have your reason why. On the first point, I assume you are saying that if you are strafing your movement speed is lower than base ADS movement speed, and therefore your base spread is lower than Symthic’s reported base spread while ADS and moving stat? If so, I’ve not heard of that but it’s certainly possible you’re right. If that were the case, though, the Chauchat is still very likely not worse than the Autoloading 8 on this. For instance, let’s say the actual base spread value while strafing is exactly halfway between the standstill base ADS spread and Symthic’s reported ADS spread while moving. In that case, base spread for the Chauchat would be 0.4, while it would be 0.5 for the Autoloading 8 Extended. I won’t show all the calculations, but the upshot of this is that in this situation total spread (i.e. the spread of all shots added together) for the Chauchat is lower if you take 4 or more shots. Definitionally, this means that there must always be less overall spread for the Chauchat when either gun goes against a full-health enemy past 20 meters, since that’s a 4-shot kill for both guns. So the only situations where the Autoloading 8’s spread while strafing is superior are: (1) within 20 meters where every one of your shots hits the enemy—if even one shot misses then the Chauchat ends up better, or (2) at any distance against an injured enemy in which you specifically get the kill by using exactly 2 or 3 bullets. Now, I’m not saying those scenarios never happen, but you basically need 100% perfect aim while strafing for the Autoloading 8 Extended to be better here, and I really don’t think that’d typically be the case even for the very best players (unless of course you’re at very close quarters, but in that case these spread values probably don’t matter). So I still think the Chauchat’s ADS-while-moving spread model is better, though if you’re right about this then it’s certainly less clear cut in the Chauchat’s favor. On your second point, I don’t think that’s true at all. There are indeed two different spread increase per shot stats for the Chauchat. But it’s simply spread increase per shot while ADSed and spread increase per shot while hip firing. In other words, the Chauchat (or any other gun for that matter) does not have two different spread increase stats for ADS standing still and ADS while moving. So I do not think moving has any effect on the rate of fire the Chauchat can have without any spread increase. It’s also worth noting that, while spread increase per shot is higher while hip firing, the Chauchat’s spread decrease while hip firing is proportionally higher as well, such that the rate of fire you can shoot at without any spread increase is exactly the same while ADSed and while hip firing despite the higher spread increase per shot on the hip fire. ---
**Author:** ![lessthanjake123](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/l/73ab20/32.png) [@lessthanjake123](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/lessthanjake123)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 12:37am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/why-is-the-autoloading-8-25-extended-used-way-more-than-the-chauchat/103444/28 "2018-08-15T00:37:00Z")
> [@bapman63](#): > > This is one of the silliest threads ever, people want to play as a medic so they use medic weapons, people who want to play as support use support weapons. People choose the class then use the weapons in that class, nuff said. I don’t think that’s always the case. Anecdotally, I do both. Sometimes I pick my class and then decide which gun I wanna play within it, but I often pick what gun I want to play with and then am obviously locked into that particular gun’s class. It all depends on the situation. In any event, it’s kind of a moot point anyways. The idea that people choose the Autoloading 8 over the Chauchat because they want to be a Medic misses the point. I’m not actually saying it’s always a straight up choice between the two. The main point is that I think the Chauchat is an equal or better gun, yet the Autoloading 8 completely dominates Medic usage rates, while the Chauchat only has a mediocre usage rate compared to other Support weapons. Why would the Autoloading 8.25 Extended be used by 15% of Medic players, while the Chauchat is only used by 4.5% of Support players? That’s my question. And that question simply cannot logically be answered by saying “People want to play Medic so they choose the Autoloading 8 not the Chauchat.” The point is that, amongst those who choose to play Medic, the Autoloading 8.25 Extended is extremely popular, while amongst those who choose to play Support the Chauchat is not all that popular. That seems odd to me given that I think the Chauchat is a superior gun. ---
**Author:** ![lessthanjake123](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/l/73ab20/32.png) [@lessthanjake123](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/lessthanjake123)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 12:49am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/why-is-the-autoloading-8-25-extended-used-way-more-than-the-chauchat/103444/29 "2018-08-15T00:49:00Z")
> [@Ploodovic](#): > > > [@bapman63](#): > > > > This is one of the silliest threads ever, people want to play as a medic so they use medic weapons, people who want to play as support use support weapons. People choose the class then use the weapons in that class, nuff said. > > While I can’t speak for OP, I believe their train of thought, when choosing weapons, is like this: “what weapon characteristics do I want today?” And, depending on the answer, they will choose the class were the weapon with those characteristics is available in. > > That is not at all how I choose weapons. First, I think: “now, what CLASS do I want to play today?” And, depending on the answer, I choose a weapon available in that class that fits my mood and the map. > > If you think like me, a comparison between different classes’ weapons is totally irrelevant, for choosing a weapon. > > OP: > > > [@lessthanjake123](#): > > > > If I want to play as a Medic, I’d obviously rather use the Autoloading 8 Extended than the Chauchat. > > Well, then. I guess it’s settled. This gets us fairly far afield from the point of the thread, but do you honestly pick weapon/class that way all the time? For instance, if you’re on Galicia and play Scout, are you playing it for the spotting flares? No, you’re almost certainly choosing it for the particular weapon characteristics that certain Scout weapons have. Same with playing Assault on Fort de Vaux. Or playing Support to hold down a particular choke point with a bipodded bullet hose. These sorts of choices are made based on weapon characteristics that one wants, not based on the class. To some extent, the two concepts overlap a good bit, because we tend to associate each class with particular weapon characteristics common to that class, and we often want to play a particular class specifically because we want those weapon characteristics. But if it’s all blurred like that then it’s hard to say with any certainty that your decisionmaking is based on class or based on weapon characteristics. You can only really tell if you either make your class decision based on a class’s gadgets (i.e. if you want to revive people, for instance), or if you specifically want a very unique weapon (for instance, if I choose Support only so I can use the Burton LMR to shred a Behemoth). In any event, see my post just above this for an explanation as to why this issue doesn’t really matter much for the purposes of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![The\_BERG\_366](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/the_berg_366/32/101051_2.png) [@The\_BERG\_366](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/The_BERG_366)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 2:16am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/why-is-the-autoloading-8-25-extended-used-way-more-than-the-chauchat/103444/30 "2018-08-15T02:16:00Z")
> [@lessthanjake123](#): > > > [@The\_BERG\_366](#): > > > > @lessthanjake123 > > I wanna explain to you a few things that I saw u post that don’t quite work and that might be the answer to your question. First off of course the biggest factors are the different classes and one of the guns being a dlc weapon while the other one isn’t. however that doesn’t tell the whole story as the chauchat should still see more use if those where the only factors. > > > > first odd two things I wanna mention: > > > > 1. the “base spread while moving” value is kind of linearily dependent to the movement speed of a player while the values that u can see on symthic is the value for maximum movement speed (this is the maximum movement speed while not running so it refers to the speed your soldier has when u simoly push your left stick forward). now when u side starve or whatevee while adsed your movement speed is significantly lower. in bf4 sidestraving speed whole adsed with non-bullpup weapons was less than 50% of the maximum speed. now I don’t know about the values in this game but based on my personal experience I wouldnt expect it to be more than 50% of the maximum speed. therefore basespread while moving in most actual in game scenarios is actually a lot lower than the value on symthic which is the one u used for your calculations. the real value is between the min spread while standing still and the min spread value while moving on symthic where the value is changing linearly to the movement speed. > > > > 2. u say that while shooting at 324 rpm the chauchat won’t add any additional spread. Well yeah while standing still thst is true. however this value drops down to about 247rpm when moving. this is a number that will easily be exceeded in game in more hectic situations. and as the gun has such a high spread decrease it should be clear what happens if you exceed the theoretical max firerate: the spread goes out of the roof really quickly. > > > > now why is the 8.25 so much more popular. additionally to the reasons mentioned in the beginning 1. shows us that the spread values of the 8.25 while moving compared to the chauchat are actually absolutely and more importantly also relatively better than how u described them. furtherly tapfiring with the chauchat is not as effective in actual in game scenarios as it might look, showed in 2. finally the first few shots, especially with low rpm guns, are the most important ones. u can’t afford to miss one of your first 3 shots with a chauchat as it essentially increases your ttk by 50%. and giving the nature of the chauchats spread it is clear why its not very reliable on the first few shots. pair this with the slow ads time and the fact that it was a really bad weapon at one point and you have your reason why. > > On the first point, I assume you are saying that if you are strafing your movement speed is lower than base ADS movement speed, and therefore your base spread is lower than Symthic’s reported base spread while ADS and moving stat? If so, I’ve not heard of that but it’s certainly possible you’re right. If that were the case, though, the Chauchat is still very likely not worse than the Autoloading 8 on this. For instance, let’s say the actual base spread value while strafing is exactly halfway between the standstill base ADS spread and Symthic’s reported ADS spread while moving. In that case, base spread for the Chauchat would be 0.4, while it would be 0.5 for the Autoloading 8 Extended. I won’t show all the calculations, but the upshot of this is that in this situation total spread (i.e. the spread of all shots added together) for the Chauchat is lower if you take 4 or more shots. Definitionally, this means that there must always be less overall spread for the Chauchat when either gun goes against a full-health enemy past 20 meters, since that’s a 4-shot kill for both guns. So the only situations where the Autoloading 8’s spread while strafing is superior are: (1) within 20 meters where every one of your shots hits the enemy—if even one shot misses then the Chauchat ends up better, or (2) at any distance against an injured enemy in which you specifically get the kill by using exactly 2 or 3 bullets. Now, I’m not saying those scenarios never happen, but you basically need 100% perfect aim while strafing for the Autoloading 8 Extended to be better here, and I really don’t think that’d typically be the case even for the very best players (unless of course you’re at very close quarters, but in that case these spread values probably don’t matter). So I still think the Chauchat’s ADS-while-moving spread model is better, though if you’re right about this then it’s certainly less clear cut in the Chauchat’s favor. > > On your second point, I don’t think that’s true at all. There are indeed two different spread increase per shot stats for the Chauchat. But it’s simply spread increase per shot while ADSed and spread increase per shot while hip firing. In other words, the Chauchat (or any other gun for that matter) does not have two different spread increase stats for ADS standing still and ADS while moving. So I do not think moving has any effect on the rate of fire the Chauchat can have without any spread increase. It’s also worth noting that, while spread increase per shot is higher while hip firing, the Chauchat’s spread decrease while hip firing is proportionally higher as well, such that the rate of fire you can shoot at without any spread increase is exactly the same while ADSed and while hip firing despite the higher spread increase per shot on the hip fire. no im saying that ads movement speed is slower than hip movement speed. and the value refers to max movement speed without running (aka moving forward while not adsed). u seem to underestimate versatility of guns. with something like a 8.25 u can just adjust your firerate to any situation to get the best balance between firerate and spread. the chauchat doesn’t offer that versatility. the only way it’s really better is if u compare spamfiring the 8.25 to full auto firing the chauchat at some range while already being adsed. why is that? let me explain what u misunderstood in point 2: honestly I made a mistake here as well, however it has nothing to do with spread increase but with spread decrease (my mistake was to misunderstand the first decrease value). let me explain: spread decrease only kicks in when the gun is ready to fire again. therefore the calculation for the maximum firerate while maintaining min spread for moving is the following: 1 / (60/359 + 0.9/12.75) \* 60 = 252.4 and for standing still: 1 / (359/60 + 0.424/12.75) \* 60 = 299.4 and again it is fatal to tap fire faster than these defined numbers. ---
**Author:** ![trip1ex](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@trip1ex](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/trip1ex)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 2:26am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/why-is-the-autoloading-8-25-extended-used-way-more-than-the-chauchat/103444/31 "2018-08-15T02:26:00Z")
medic guns in general more accurate and “quicker.” and I think their bullets go farther as far as the number of enemies you can kill with the same sized mag. I think my feeling using the Chauchat was it can be a stretch to kill more than 2 guys with it before you have to reload. I used it a lot before. YOu might waste a few bullets getting started and then waste a few more after the guy drops before you stop. AT this point you may or may not have enough comfortable room for another kill. Obviously if you’re bipoded you can manage ammo a bit better. Meanwhile the medic gun I use now…I feel like i can kill 3-4 guys before reloading and it’s only got 21 bullets. i probably used the auto extended a bit early on but can’t recall if you can expect something similar as the medic gun i described. ---
**Author:** ![trip1ex](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@trip1ex](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/trip1ex)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 2:37am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/why-is-the-autoloading-8-25-extended-used-way-more-than-the-chauchat/103444/32 "2018-08-15T02:37:00Z")
To answer your question why other guns are used more than the Chauchat in its class: I think most go for a bigger clip or the BAR. Bigger clip means less reloading and you can waste lots of bullets not care as much. It is sympatico with Support having unlimited ammo. If you’re going to use a small clip I bet the BAR is more used because it was super deadly before ttk 1.0 and yet got a ttk decrease with ttk 2.0. ---
**Author:** ![lessthanjake123](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/l/73ab20/32.png) [@lessthanjake123](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/lessthanjake123)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 5:09am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/why-is-the-autoloading-8-25-extended-used-way-more-than-the-chauchat/103444/33 "2018-08-15T05:09:00Z")
> [@The\_BERG\_366](#): > > > [@lessthanjake123](#): > > > > > [@The\_BERG\_366](#): > > > > > > @lessthanjake123 > > > I wanna explain to you a few things that I saw u post that don’t quite work and that might be the answer to your question. First off of course the biggest factors are the different classes and one of the guns being a dlc weapon while the other one isn’t. however that doesn’t tell the whole story as the chauchat should still see more use if those where the only factors. > > > > > > first odd two things I wanna mention: > > > > > > 1. the “base spread while moving” value is kind of linearily dependent to the movement speed of a player while the values that u can see on symthic is the value for maximum movement speed (this is the maximum movement speed while not running so it refers to the speed your soldier has when u simoly push your left stick forward). now when u side starve or whatevee while adsed your movement speed is significantly lower. in bf4 sidestraving speed whole adsed with non-bullpup weapons was less than 50% of the maximum speed. now I don’t know about the values in this game but based on my personal experience I wouldnt expect it to be more than 50% of the maximum speed. therefore basespread while moving in most actual in game scenarios is actually a lot lower than the value on symthic which is the one u used for your calculations. the real value is between the min spread while standing still and the min spread value while moving on symthic where the value is changing linearly to the movement speed. > > > > > > 2. u say that while shooting at 324 rpm the chauchat won’t add any additional spread. Well yeah while standing still thst is true. however this value drops down to about 247rpm when moving. this is a number that will easily be exceeded in game in more hectic situations. and as the gun has such a high spread decrease it should be clear what happens if you exceed the theoretical max firerate: the spread goes out of the roof really quickly. > > > > > > now why is the 8.25 so much more popular. additionally to the reasons mentioned in the beginning 1. shows us that the spread values of the 8.25 while moving compared to the chauchat are actually absolutely and more importantly also relatively better than how u described them. furtherly tapfiring with the chauchat is not as effective in actual in game scenarios as it might look, showed in 2. finally the first few shots, especially with low rpm guns, are the most important ones. u can’t afford to miss one of your first 3 shots with a chauchat as it essentially increases your ttk by 50%. and giving the nature of the chauchats spread it is clear why its not very reliable on the first few shots. pair this with the slow ads time and the fact that it was a really bad weapon at one point and you have your reason why. > > > > On the first point, I assume you are saying that if you are strafing your movement speed is lower than base ADS movement speed, and therefore your base spread is lower than Symthic’s reported base spread while ADS and moving stat? If so, I’ve not heard of that but it’s certainly possible you’re right. If that were the case, though, the Chauchat is still very likely not worse than the Autoloading 8 on this. For instance, let’s say the actual base spread value while strafing is exactly halfway between the standstill base ADS spread and Symthic’s reported ADS spread while moving. In that case, base spread for the Chauchat would be 0.4, while it would be 0.5 for the Autoloading 8 Extended. I won’t show all the calculations, but the upshot of this is that in this situation total spread (i.e. the spread of all shots added together) for the Chauchat is lower if you take 4 or more shots. Definitionally, this means that there must always be less overall spread for the Chauchat when either gun goes against a full-health enemy past 20 meters, since that’s a 4-shot kill for both guns. So the only situations where the Autoloading 8’s spread while strafing is superior are: (1) within 20 meters where every one of your shots hits the enemy—if even one shot misses then the Chauchat ends up better, or (2) at any distance against an injured enemy in which you specifically get the kill by using exactly 2 or 3 bullets. Now, I’m not saying those scenarios never happen, but you basically need 100% perfect aim while strafing for the Autoloading 8 Extended to be better here, and I really don’t think that’d typically be the case even for the very best players (unless of course you’re at very close quarters, but in that case these spread values probably don’t matter). So I still think the Chauchat’s ADS-while-moving spread model is better, though if you’re right about this then it’s certainly less clear cut in the Chauchat’s favor. > > > > On your second point, I don’t think that’s true at all. There are indeed two different spread increase per shot stats for the Chauchat. But it’s simply spread increase per shot while ADSed and spread increase per shot while hip firing. In other words, the Chauchat (or any other gun for that matter) does not have two different spread increase stats for ADS standing still and ADS while moving. So I do not think moving has any effect on the rate of fire the Chauchat can have without any spread increase. It’s also worth noting that, while spread increase per shot is higher while hip firing, the Chauchat’s spread decrease while hip firing is proportionally higher as well, such that the rate of fire you can shoot at without any spread increase is exactly the same while ADSed and while hip firing despite the higher spread increase per shot on the hip fire. > > no im saying that ads movement speed is slower than hip movement speed. and the value refers to max movement speed without running (aka moving forward while not adsed). > u seem to underestimate versatility of guns. with something like a 8.25 u can just adjust your firerate to any situation to get the best balance between firerate and spread. the chauchat doesn’t offer that versatility. the only way it’s really better is if u compare spamfiring the 8.25 to full auto firing the chauchat at some range while already being adsed. why is that? let me explain what u misunderstood in point 2: > honestly I made a mistake here as well, however it has nothing to do with spread increase but with spread decrease (my mistake was to misunderstand the first decrease value). let me explain: spread decrease only kicks in when the gun is ready to fire again. therefore the calculation for the maximum firerate while maintaining min spread for moving is the following: 1 / (60/359 + 0.9/12.75) \* 60 = 252.4 > and for standing still: 1 / (359/60 + 0.424/12.75) \* 60 = 299.4 > and again it is fatal to tap fire faster than these defined numbers. If that’s what you’re saying then you’re just almost certainly wrong. There are two spread-while-moving stats listed by Symthic (which takes it from the game’s code). There’s hip-fire spread while moving, and there’s ADS spread while moving. Obviously the hip fire spread while moving is always larger for every gun (for instance, for the Autoloading 8.25 the base spread is 2.50 while moving in hip fire, and 0.82 while moving in ADS). The stat listed as “ADS, moving” pretty obviously already takes into account that you are moving while ADSed rather than not ADSed. And that is the stat that I used to compare their spread while moving in ADS. Are you trying to argue that the “ADS, moving” stat I used is incorrect because it doesn’t account for the fact that you are moving in ADS??? That seems self-evidently incorrect. As for the spread decrease thing, you are right that I was a bit messed up with the calculation. But your calculations aren’t exactly right either. You are right about the second calculation. With a 359 RPM, that means you shoot a bullet every 0.16713 seconds (60/359). With a spread decrease of 12.75 and a first shot spread increase of 0.424, it would take 0.033255 seconds to eliminate spread (0.424/12.75). So if you want to shoot with no spread increase, you would need to tap fire every 0.200385 seconds (0.16713+0.033255). As you note, that yields a 299.4 RPM ((1/0.200385)\*60) in which the Chauchat can tap fire without spread increase. Remember, by the way, that that’s the max fire rate of the Cei-Rigotti and Selbstlader 1906. So the Chauchat Low Weight can tap fire at the max fire rate of those guns without any spread increase. In any event, two key points about this are worth making: 1. The 252.4 RPM number you gave does not exist. ADS spread increase is the same regardless of whether you are moving or not. And, while the Chauchat’s hip fire does indeed have a first-shot spread increase of 0.9, the weapon also has a spread decrease of 27 (not 12.75) while hip firing. The upshot is that the tap fire rate you can sustain while hip firing without spread is essentially the exact same as the above calculation for ADS (in mathematical terms, this is because 0.9/27 = 0.03333 is essentially the same as the 0.033255 listed above). Technically it’s 299.3 RPM instead of 299.4. 2. The Autoloading 8.25 Extended has that same exact RPM at which it can fire without spread increase while ADSed. This is because it has a spread decrease of only 3, and a first shot spread increase of 0.1. Since 0.1/3 also equals 0.03333, the Autoloading 8.25 Extended has to wait just as long between shots to eliminate its spread increase. It’s worth noting, though, that the Autoloading 8.25 Extended can actually shoot at 326 RPM without spread increase when it is in hip fire (because it only has 0.05 spread increase per shot when hip firing, which I hadn’t previously noticed). So there is a small advantage there. So, I was still essentially right that the two guns have the same rate of fire at which they can fire without any spread increase while ADSed. That rate of fire is just 299 RPM instead of 326 RPM. Though it is true that if you’re hip firing, then the Autoloading 8.25 Extended can hip fire a bit faster without spread. Your point about versatility is not off base, but I do question its importance. The benefit the Autoloading 8.25 Extended has here is basically that it will have less spread than the Chauchat if you are tap firing within that 299 RPM to 359 RPM window (since the Chauchat relies on a larger spread decrease stat to eliminate its much higher first shot spread increase, so less time for spread decrease affects it more). The difference isn’t that big if you’re quite close to 299 RPM, but gets worse and worse as you go up towards 359 RPM. So yes, the Autoloading 8.25 Extended does have the luxury of eliminating some of its spread while still shooting quite close to its max fire, while the Chauchat really can just shoot automatic fire at 359 RPM or tap fire at around 300 RPM or below, with little in between. The reason I question the importance of that, though, is that I just don’t think people tap fire at between 299 and 359 RPM very often. From my own experience and from watching others play, I feel like the choice is typically either to fire at that max rate in close quarters (in which case, the Chauchat would just be used with automatic fire), or to tap fire at a substantially lower fire rate at medium and long distances (again, remember, 299 RPM is the max fire rate of the Cei Rigotti and Selbstlader 1906. It’s fast). The recoil of both these guns is simply too strong to be able to tap fire faster than that at a decent distance. And forget about it if the enemy is moving or is only exposing a portion of their body. Meanwhile, at closer distances the spread differences aren’t important so you’re basically just hurting your TTK by not firing at the max fire rate. I guess there is hypothetically some very specific engagement distance in close-medium range in which you’d get some use out of tap firing between 299 RPM and 359 RPM against a stationary enemy. But I think that’s a very narrow situation. In those situations, the Chauchat would just be used with automatic fire. As a result, it would end up with marginally worse spread than the Autoloading 8.25 Extended (mostly just on shots 2-5; after that they’d basically be the same), but I think the relative ease of aiming and controlling an automatic weapon vs. a semi-automatic one would probably outweigh these relatively small spread differences for most people in those situations (especially on console). But again, it seems like that’d be a very rare situation. ---
**Author:** ![lessthanjake123](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/l/73ab20/32.png) [@lessthanjake123](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/lessthanjake123)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 5:41am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/why-is-the-autoloading-8-25-extended-used-way-more-than-the-chauchat/103444/34 "2018-08-15T05:41:00Z")
> [@trip1ex](#): > > medic guns in general more accurate and “quicker.” and I think their bullets go farther as far as the number of enemies you can kill with the same sized mag. > > I think my feeling using the Chauchat was it can be a stretch to kill more than 2 guys with it before you have to reload. I used it a lot before. YOu might waste a few bullets getting started and then waste a few more after the guy drops before you stop. AT this point you may or may not have enough comfortable room for another kill. Obviously if you’re bipoded you can manage ammo a bit better. > > Meanwhile the medic gun I use now…I feel like i can kill 3-4 guys before reloading and it’s only got 21 bullets. > > i probably used the auto extended a bit early on but can’t recall if you can expect something similar as the medic gun i described. The obvious retort to this is that the Chauchat objectively can kill more people with one clip than the Autoloading 8.25 Extended can. If all your shots it, the Chauchat could get 6.7 kills within 20 meters, compared to 5.3 kills for the Autoloading 8.25 Extended. The Chauchat could get 5 kills between 20 and 38 meters, compared to 4 kills for the Autoloading 8.25 Extended. And the Chauchat could get 5 kills past 38 meters, compared to 3.2 kills for the Autoloading 8.25 Extended. Of course, I gather that part of your point may be that the LMG spread model results in more bullets being wasted to get a kill. There’s certainly some validity to that, though the Chauchat is basically strictly more accurate if you are shooting while moving in ADS, regardless of the spread model, and its spread increase in general isn’t very high for an LMG. One other point might be that the one tends to waste more bullets with a fully-automatic weapon. That’s definitely true at least from my perspective. But I personally still feel like I can get more kills per magazine with the Chauchat than the Autoloading 8.25 Extended, especially at engagement distances where the Autoloading 8 is a 5-shot kill. In contrast, I feel like I can get more kills per magazine with the M1907 SL than the Chauchat, though, but the difference isn’t very big IMO. > [@trip1ex](#): > > To answer your question why other guns are used more than the Chauchat in its class: I think most go for a bigger clip or the BAR. Bigger clip means less reloading and you can waste lots of bullets not care as much. It is sympatico with Support having unlimited ammo. > > If you’re going to use a small clip I bet the BAR is more used because it was super deadly before ttk 1.0 and yet got a ttk decrease with ttk 2.0. I think this is probably right. Certainly the Chauchat can’t really take the spot of the massive-clip LMGs. But I personally think it’s got a lot going for it over the BAR Storm. Its magazine goes much further, it’s easier to control, it has a bipod, can actually tap fire effectively, etc. But I also just really don’t like the BAR. ---
**Author:** ![ElliotLH](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/elliotlh/32/101030_2.png) [@ElliotLH](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/ElliotLH)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 8:18am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/why-is-the-autoloading-8-25-extended-used-way-more-than-the-chauchat/103444/35 "2018-08-15T08:18:00Z")
Maybe people just simply don’t like the chau-chat compared to the other offerings in the support class? ---
**Author:** ![lordicus72](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@lordicus72](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/lordicus72)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 12:40pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/why-is-the-autoloading-8-25-extended-used-way-more-than-the-chauchat/103444/36 "2018-08-15T12:40:00Z")
> [@Trokey66](#): > > One user can heal themselves whilst the other can’t. What he said … ---
**Author:** ![VBALL\_MVP](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/vball_mvp/32/103977_2.png) [@VBALL\_MVP](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/VBALL_MVP)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 12:42pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/why-is-the-autoloading-8-25-extended-used-way-more-than-the-chauchat/103444/37 "2018-08-15T12:42:00Z")
> [@trip1ex](#): > > To answer your question why other guns are used more than the Chauchat in its class: I think most go for a bigger clip or the BAR. Bigger clip means less reloading and you can waste lots of bullets not care as much. It is sympatico with Support having unlimited ammo. > > If you’re going to use a small clip I bet the BAR is more used because it was super deadly before ttk 1.0 and yet got a ttk decrease with ttk 2.0. People want the higher rate of fire. ---
**Author:** ![BFB-LeCharybdis](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/bfb-lecharybdis/32/101325_2.png) [@BFB-LeCharybdis](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/BFB-LeCharybdis)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 1:20pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/why-is-the-autoloading-8-25-extended-used-way-more-than-the-chauchat/103444/38 "2018-08-15T13:20:00Z")
No I get what your trying to say, but you’ve answered it yourself in your stats. The 8.25 works best as a close to medium range weapon, so a lot of your engagements are going to fast paced and down to those first three shots, in which the 8.25 is superior. Running the same style of play with the Chauchat will not be as effective, it’s only a slight variance in stat’s but that small difference is huge in CQC, whereas the Burton, Parabellum etc rate of fire and hip fire will always be better and give you a chance against the Assault and medic classes up close. The Chauchat is a quality weapon (although I prefer the Huot) but the autoloading is king of it’s niche, whereas the Chauchat is more a very solid jack of all trades, but master of none. ---
**Author:** ![Contra87](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/8dc957/32.png) [@Contra87](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Contra87)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 2:23pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/why-is-the-autoloading-8-25-extended-used-way-more-than-the-chauchat/103444/39 "2018-08-15T14:23:00Z")
> [@ElliotLH](#): > > Maybe people just simply don’t like the chau-chat compared to the other offerings in the support class? I’m starting to feel bad for liking the .25 and not the Chau-Chat… ---
**Author:** ![ElliotLH](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/elliotlh/32/101030_2.png) [@ElliotLH](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/ElliotLH)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 2:28pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/why-is-the-autoloading-8-25-extended-used-way-more-than-the-chauchat/103444/40 "2018-08-15T14:28:00Z")
> [@Contra87](#): > > > [@ElliotLH](#): > > > > Maybe people just simply don’t like the chau-chat compared to the other offerings in the support class? > > I’m starting to feel bad for liking the .25 and not the Chau-Chat… I actually dusted off the ol’ choo-choo last night after reading this thread and had a lot of fun running and gunning. [Previous page](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/why-is-the-autoloading-8-25-extended-used-way-more-than-the-chauchat/103444.md?page=1) [Next page](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/why-is-the-autoloading-8-25-extended-used-way-more-than-the-chauchat/103444.md?page=3)