# WW1 1x Optics - yes, the reflex sight was actually invented in 1900 by Howard Grubb **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 9, 2016, 6:07pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/ww1-1x-optics-yes-the-reflex-sight-was-actually-invented-in-1900-by-howard-grubb/101023 "2016-05-09T18:07:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CmdrVOODOO](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/cmdrvoodoo/32/101534_2.png) [@CmdrVOODOO](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/CmdrVOODOO)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 6:07pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/ww1-1x-optics-yes-the-reflex-sight-was-actually-invented-in-1900-by-howard-grubb/101023/1 "2016-05-09T18:07:00Z")
I know everyone is assuming (as I was) that BF1 would only have scopes on sniper rifles, and for everything else we’d have to deal with obstructed iron sights. In just doing a little research (something I’m assuming/hoping DICE has already done) I found out that the reflex sight was invented 14 years before the start of WW1. "**In 1900 Grubb invented the reflector or “reflex” sight, a non-magnifying optical sight that uses a collimator to allow the viewer looking through the sight to see an illuminated image of a reticle or other pattern in front of them that stays in alignment with the device the sight is attached to (parallax free)**. This type of sight has come to be used on all kinds of weapons from small firearms to fighter aircraft. It is also at the heart of all modern head-up displays. _ **During the First World War the Grubb factory was in demand for the production of telescopic gun-sights** _ and during this time he was credited with perfecting a periscope design for Royal Navy submarines." Source: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard\_Grubb](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Grubb) (and DICE, if you didn’t already know this, it might be a nice thing to put into the game) ---
**Author:** ![MegaloDorian](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/f14d63/32.png) [@MegaloDorian](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/MegaloDorian)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/ww1-1x-optics-yes-the-reflex-sight-was-actually-invented-in-1900-by-howard-grubb/101023/2 "2016-05-09T18:18:00Z")
Is there any examples one can find of reflector sights for small arms back then? I think the technology was perhaps most utilized for aircraft and/or anti-aircraft guns. That Wikipedia article seems to be more referring to them being used later throughout history (“come to be used”), and “telescopic gun-sights” can refer to standard, non-reflector scopes. Nonetheless, I truly believe the vision was there. Grubb probably had the idea that his technology would eventually become widely used on small arms. ---
**Author:** ![CmdrVOODOO](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/cmdrvoodoo/32/101534_2.png) [@CmdrVOODOO](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/CmdrVOODOO)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 6:27pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/ww1-1x-optics-yes-the-reflex-sight-was-actually-invented-in-1900-by-howard-grubb/101023/3 "2016-05-09T18:27:00Z")
Yeah, I doubt it was actually used at all by the average soldier in WW1 considering they were still using iron sights almost exclusively until very recent times. They definitely existed during that time. There are pictures of him as a young man with his sight mounted on small arms. > **[Reflector sight](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflector_sight)** > > A reflector sight or reflex sight is an optical sight that allows the user to look through a partially reflecting glass element and see an aiming point or some image (helping to aim the device, to which the sight is attached, on the target) superimposed on the field of view. These sights work on the simple optical principle that anything (such as an illuminated reticle) at the focus of a lens or curved mirror will appear to be sitting in front of the viewer at infinity. Reflector sights emp Since... ![](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflector_sight#/media/File:Howard_Grubb_Reflexvisier_2.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![preto2123](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@preto2123](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/preto2123)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/ww1-1x-optics-yes-the-reflex-sight-was-actually-invented-in-1900-by-howard-grubb/101023/4 "2016-05-09T18:30:00Z")
nice, love it ---
**Author:** ![CmdrVOODOO](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/cmdrvoodoo/32/101534_2.png) [@CmdrVOODOO](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/CmdrVOODOO)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/ww1-1x-optics-yes-the-reflex-sight-was-actually-invented-in-1900-by-howard-grubb/101023/5 "2016-05-09T18:37:00Z")
The biggest objection I’m hearing from people about a WW1 is the lack of fun weapons (which is not really the case) and having to deal with obstructed iron sights unless you’re sniping. There were plenty of advanced weapons (even ARs) that existed during WW1. [![Video: Advanced Weapons of WW1 (1914-1918)](https://battlefieldforum.co/uploads/default/original/3X/1/f/1fb079c4b4a289b663ed4694a62c5543aac8ce63.jpeg "Advanced Weapons of WW1 (1914-1918)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbVZ20-4rAU) Like I said, I’m sure this isn’t what the average soldier on the battlefield was walking around with, but it is certainly plausible to have reflex optics. Especially now that we know they were invented almost 2 decades before the end of the war… and several years before powered flight was even a thing. ---
**Author:** ![forthecandy](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/f/3ec8ea/32.png) [@forthecandy](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/forthecandy)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 8:05pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/ww1-1x-optics-yes-the-reflex-sight-was-actually-invented-in-1900-by-howard-grubb/101023/6 "2016-05-09T20:05:00Z")
It was a very expensive piece of equipement… And only a few planes (and that was also incredibly expensive thing) had those ---
**Author:** ![DoubleTap\_13th](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/doubletap_13th/32/101769_2.png) [@DoubleTap\_13th](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/DoubleTap_13th)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/ww1-1x-optics-yes-the-reflex-sight-was-actually-invented-in-1900-by-howard-grubb/101023/7 "2016-05-09T21:41:00Z")
I hope they add this I hate using iron sights and don’t want to play as a sniper. ---
**Author:** ![rick213we](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/r/e19adc/32.png) [@rick213we](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/rick213we)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 10:53pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/ww1-1x-optics-yes-the-reflex-sight-was-actually-invented-in-1900-by-howard-grubb/101023/8 "2016-05-09T22:53:00Z")
wow I didn’t know they had reflex sight back in ww1 it world be cool to see how they look like. ---
**Author:** ![redzuluzulu0096](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/r/bc79bd/32.png) [@redzuluzulu0096](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/redzuluzulu0096)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 11:06pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/ww1-1x-optics-yes-the-reflex-sight-was-actually-invented-in-1900-by-howard-grubb/101023/9 "2016-05-09T23:06:00Z")
I wouldn’t have a problem with them having it in the game for MP. It would be a stretch in campaign. ---
**Author:** ![heast1](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/heast1/32/102187_2.png) [@heast1](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/heast1)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 11:19pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/ww1-1x-optics-yes-the-reflex-sight-was-actually-invented-in-1900-by-howard-grubb/101023/10 "2016-05-09T23:19:00Z")
> [@CmdrVOODOO](#): > > There were plenty of advanced weapons (even ARs) that existed during WW1. > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbVZ20-4rAU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbVZ20-4rAU) ouch. so unsexy. ---
**Author:** ![CmdrVOODOO](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/cmdrvoodoo/32/101534_2.png) [@CmdrVOODOO](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/CmdrVOODOO)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 11:37pm UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/ww1-1x-optics-yes-the-reflex-sight-was-actually-invented-in-1900-by-howard-grubb/101023/11 "2016-05-09T23:37:00Z")
> [@redzuluzulu0096](#): > > I wouldn’t have a problem with them having it in the game for MP. It would be a stretch in campaign. I agree, MP only would be fine. It is definitely a stretch for 1918, but it would be plausible at least. ---
**Author:** ![afnav130](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@afnav130](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/afnav130)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 12:07am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/ww1-1x-optics-yes-the-reflex-sight-was-actually-invented-in-1900-by-howard-grubb/101023/12 "2016-05-10T00:07:00Z")
> [@CmdrVOODOO](#): > > > [@redzuluzulu0096](#): > > > > I wouldn’t have a problem with them having it in the game for MP. It would be a stretch in campaign. > > I agree, MP only would be fine. It is definitely a stretch for 1918, but it would be plausible at least. Why? Go look at any footage from WW1 and tell me how many scopes you see on weapons? Next to none. If you want BF4 play BF4. This game needs to stay authentic. Of it won’t and you’ll realize it’s BF4 just reskinned. ---
**Author:** ![Bohunk\_l](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/bohunk_l/32/101385_2.png) [@Bohunk\_l](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Bohunk_l)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 2:31am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/ww1-1x-optics-yes-the-reflex-sight-was-actually-invented-in-1900-by-howard-grubb/101023/13 "2016-05-10T02:31:00Z")
> [@afnav130](#): > > > [@CmdrVOODOO](#): > > > > > [@redzuluzulu0096](#): > > > > > > I wouldn’t have a problem with them having it in the game for MP. It would be a stretch in campaign. > > > > I agree, MP only would be fine. It is definitely a stretch for 1918, but it would be plausible at least. > > Why? Go look at any footage from WW1 and tell me how many scopes you see on weapons? Next to none. If you want BF4 play BF4. This game needs to stay authentic. Of it won’t and you’ll realize it’s BF4 just reskinned. To be fair, in the MP DICE will more than likely take some creative freedoms so the experience can be fun. Automatics where not that prevalent, but both SMGs and man portable MGs where shown so far and will more than likely be standard issue for at least 2 classes and one rifle was shown to have a side mounted scope. Battlefeilds authenticity goes as far as decent ballistic behavior, making sure weapon models look good, maps are actually true to the environment they are based on, and any equipment was at least a prototype at the time. After that its all arcade and fun wins over authenticity, so if DICE thinks the players need options for optics other than Iron Sights, there will be options. Im not saying there will be, but if the technology did exist at the time thats reason enough to include them regardless if it was actually used or not. Of course I didnt see any in the trailer so there really is no reason to believe they are in the game either. ---
**Author:** ![Rev0verDrive](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@Rev0verDrive](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Rev0verDrive)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 3:10am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/ww1-1x-optics-yes-the-reflex-sight-was-actually-invented-in-1900-by-howard-grubb/101023/14 "2016-05-10T03:10:00Z")
^^^ This … Win … /Thread ---
**Author:** ![CasualHorseRMax](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/c0e974/32.png) [@CasualHorseRMax](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/CasualHorseRMax)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 3:15am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/ww1-1x-optics-yes-the-reflex-sight-was-actually-invented-in-1900-by-howard-grubb/101023/15 "2016-05-10T03:15:00Z")
Reflex sights on ww1 weapons. Uhh.. Next you will claim the tanks are too slow, so let’s just make it a tad faster cuz it’s a game after all? I mean.. weren’t you guys rooting for a ww1 game and not a reskinned BF4? ---
**Author:** ![afnav130](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@afnav130](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/afnav130)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 3:22am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/ww1-1x-optics-yes-the-reflex-sight-was-actually-invented-in-1900-by-howard-grubb/101023/16 "2016-05-10T03:22:00Z")
> [@CasualHorseRMax](#): > > Reflex sights on ww1 weapons. Uhh.. > Next you will claim the tanks are too slow, so let’s just make it a tad faster cuz it’s a game after all? > > I mean.. weren’t you guys rooting for a ww1 game and not a reskinned BF4? Shhhh. You’ll anger the 12 year olds. I always thought BF was the anti Call of Duty. As years have gone on that’s become less and less the truth. If someone was smart they’d port ARMA to console. ---
**Author:** ![Rev0verDrive](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@Rev0verDrive](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Rev0verDrive)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 3:34am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/ww1-1x-optics-yes-the-reflex-sight-was-actually-invented-in-1900-by-howard-grubb/101023/17 "2016-05-10T03:34:00Z")
Uhhh some tanks cruised at 30mph. regardless dice already stated the game pace is on par with bf4. ---
**Author:** ![Bohunk\_l](https://battlefieldforum.co/user_avatar/battlefieldforum.co/bohunk_l/32/101385_2.png) [@Bohunk\_l](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/Bohunk_l)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 3:36am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/ww1-1x-optics-yes-the-reflex-sight-was-actually-invented-in-1900-by-howard-grubb/101023/18 "2016-05-10T03:36:00Z")
> [@CasualHorseRMax](#): > > Reflex sights on ww1 weapons. Uhh.. > Next you will claim the tanks are too slow, so let’s just make it a tad faster cuz it’s a game after all? > > I mean.. weren’t you guys rooting for a ww1 game and not a reskinned BF4? Im not really saying I want them, but more or less stating that it is indeed a possibility I have seen no proof to believe they are in game, however I have seen no proof that they are not in game either so I cant rule out the possibility if the technology did exist even as a barely heard of prototype I dont really think they will be, and if they are I probably wont use them the same way I didnt use them in COD WaW because I thought they ruined the aesthetics of the weapons. DICE definitely takes freedom with their games, otherwise Secret Weapons of WWII would never exist and neither would Final Stand, with its hover tanks and rail guns. ---
**Author:** ![afnav130](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@afnav130](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/afnav130)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 3:37am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/ww1-1x-optics-yes-the-reflex-sight-was-actually-invented-in-1900-by-howard-grubb/101023/19 "2016-05-10T03:37:00Z")
> [@Rev0verDrive](#): > > Uhhh some tanks cruised at 30mph. regardless dice already stated the game pace is on par with bf4. They were pretty slow on the battlefields. Maybe on open flud they can go that fast. Think about your last statement. This game should have ZERO on par with BF4. Unreal. It’s going to be BF4 with different skins and slightly different weapons employment. Thank you 12 year olds. ---
**Author:** ![EyeOwnzU](https://battlefieldforum.co/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/e/e0b2c6/32.png) [@EyeOwnzU](https://battlefieldforum.co/u/EyeOwnzU)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2016, 4:30am UTC](https://battlefieldforum.co/t/ww1-1x-optics-yes-the-reflex-sight-was-actually-invented-in-1900-by-howard-grubb/101023/20 "2016-05-10T04:30:00Z")
Can’t wait to see the tears from people used to 1000rpm Famas to a WW1 weapon. LOOOOOOOL