Bolt action rifles nerf is stupid

[ninjapenquinuk]

If we agree the problem with snipers is purely to do with the numbers of them within a game, then maybe they should just make the ‘sniper’ a squad perk like the the V1, and let the squad leader bestow it on someone?

[disposalist]

@ninjapenquinuk

If we agree the problem with snipers is purely to do with the numbers of them within a game, then maybe they should just make the ‘sniper’ a squad perk like the the V1, and let the squad leader bestow it on someone?

I’d be up for that.

[CptMIFF]

Same, maybe be dependant on the map? Lets say a certain game mode or map you have limited snipers. Shouldnt be a problem actually.

I have to explain what I meant earlier, I havent played any alpha yet so I dont know how the snipers compare to bf1 but in bf1 its too easy.
It should be a little bit difficult to hit someone but nerfing damage isnt the way to go always.

Well, I play sniper a lot my self i bf1 but usually other classes. But from BF1 my main issues are some maps and the behemoths and super duper batman heroes. Awful idea.

[DingoKillr]

@Mystriall

@DingoKillr

@CptMIFF

So it should be exactly like BF1? Or what do you all suggest?

Look what BF1 has become, there are more snipers than everything on the maps.
Open areas with no where to cover, thats the main issue I have.
But it depends of the map layout to be honest.. Havent tried the alpha yet so I dont know how good each weapon are

Rifles in BF1 have the 3rd most kill primary weapon.
If you are in the open with no cover who fault is it? Yours, use what you have.

I do wonder if the rules that apply to sniper rifles was applied to other class like Semi-Auto and Assault Rifles, how they would react.
Like having glint, low velocity, massive bullet drop, be stationary for accuracy, limited ammo and slow reloads.

As for ideas how about less drag and add spread instead, a velocity that works on the internet, a sweet spot of 10 to 20m(does not have to be 1HK).

People are crying about the sniper being ruined and nerfed. It’s not. it wasn’t bad in the first alpha, i doubt it’s bad in the second alpha. I will be testing it later today. i might just make a video aswell.

As for the rules, they apply in different variations to all guns and classes, so let’s not act like the sniper is the class that’s getting all these limitations and restrictions. It’s only natural that the bullet drop is bigger at larger distances, it’s only natural that the further away you are from the target, the more movement effects the aim/bullets direction, EVERY class has to be stationary for accuracy, the fact that other classes can hit a target 10-15 meters away whilst moving alittle doesn’t mean they are accurate or hitting as well as if they had been standing still. And they would not be able to do so if it was 100-150 meters. No class can move and aim effectively at the distance, so this isn’t sniper spesific. Every class has limited ammo (with exception of support).

And let’s talk about restrictions. I played alot with the support and the MG34. Now there’s a weapon with restrictions! mainly because of it massive recoil.

1. You need to be stationary to be accurate, in fact unless your bipod is deployed, you can’t hit someone 5 meters away, even if you’re stationary (if you’re lucky you can get a hit, i didn’t get any).
2. The weapon is not that accurate even with bipod deployed at longer range. it also does little damage so most of the time even if you get a number of hits in the enemy is able to get into cover before you can finish them.
3. because it cannot be used without the bipod, it’s ineffective at close range, it took probably 2 seconds from i saw an enemy, untill i could fire at him (jumping down to the ground and then it took 1 sec before i could start firing).
4. as you are forced to be completely stationary, you are an easy target, especially for snipers. it also takes time to get up and out of cover whilst bipod is deployed, so you are sluggish whilst in that position.

So the weapon is only effective at medium range and requires good cover. How are those restrictions compared to the snipers who have to wait for 0.5 sec before pulling the trigger, and adjust for drag/bulletdrop?

Not to mention that there will likely be more rifles than just the KAR98K and likely we will see rifles with both more and less damage output. So again, why are we complaining at this point?

I will be using the MG34 in situations when it is best suited, and other weapons in other situations. As any other class will be changig weapons depending on the situation.

So let’s not say that a little more bullet drop and the damage output of 1 gun is going to ruin the whole class or game.

So to prove that I am wrong you use the MMG v rifle while I talked about rifles v SA/AR.

Well anyway thanks for proving my point rifles are meant to be situation yet the setup they are using means they are being set up for a scenario where they are meant to compete directly against SA/AR. But instead you felt it was necessary to talk about the restriction on a high rpm weapon design for short range.

We are not just talking about bullet drop or damage but combination of things.

[Parasiten79]

Low bullet velocity is the real mood-killer. Bf4 sniping was awful, felt like throwing pingpong balls. I dont want bf1 sweetspot, i want hs ohk and an acceptable min damage. But most of all i want high bullet velocity to make the gun feel like a gun and to give me an honest chance to hit where i aim. Keep velocity from bf1, remove sweetspot and adapt min damage

[Diabolus_Musica]

@Ace-Cardd

Many players (like the commenter above you) don’t want the scout class to be good at their role under any circumstance.

Unfortunately, with such an immature community full of hatred for one class, we have no chance of getting a good game.

We get it. You, and other recon players like you, want your class to dominate other classes. Other people in here want the sniper class to be useful and competitive, not a class that sits in the uncap all game sniping people from across the map (see any BF1 gameplay).

[Sixclicks]

So far:

• Bullet drop is considerably more noticeable.

• Damage dropoff is way too steep.

• AD spam makes sniper bullets very easy to dodge due the low velocity plus drag.

• Auto health regen is both too fast and too high. I hit an enemy sniper for 70 damage. He jumped behind cover. I rushed him with my pistol. Within the 6 seconds it took me to re-engage him, he had auto healed for enough health to take an additional 75 damage from my pistol and still live. That’s at least 46 health regenerated within the 6 seconds after I first hit him. We were in the open with no medics or crates nearby.

• I had one instance where I hit an enemy sniper from a considerable distance and only did 41 damage. I’m not sure what caused that. Maybe it went through a corner of cover or something.

• The G43 is still easier to snipe with at all but the longest ranges where you don’t have enough magnification.

• one positive note: it seems the assist counts as kill damage was reduced. I hit a few enemies for 51 damage (arm shot) and still got an assist counts as kill after a teammate finished them. Although the ACAK only awarded 71 total points (51 damage plus 20 points).

Besides that, it doesn’t help that the game seems more laggy compared to the first alpha.

• Not related to the sniper class, but planes are still very weak. A load of bombs landed maybe 10 feet in front of me directly on top of a friendly on the stationary AA gun. It did zero splash damage to me and didn’t kill the AA gunner.

• Also, TTK really doesn’t feel much different. You have just slightly more time to react to being shot at by STG users. Which still seems to be the most prolific weapon.

That’s was from my first two games so far at least. It’s honestly getting boring only playing Narvik though (played it a ton in the first alpha). Going back to playing Planetside 2 at least until tomorrow.

[llPhantom_Limbll]

@Diabolus_Musica

@Ace-Cardd

Many players (like the commenter above you) don’t want the scout class to be good at their role under any circumstance.

Unfortunately, with such an immature community full of hatred for one class, we have no chance of getting a good game.

We get it. You, and other recon players like you, want your class to dominate other classes. Other people in here want the sniper class to be useful and competitive, not a class that sits in the uncap all game sniping people from across the map (see any BF1 gameplay).

If you really think that classes like assault are skilled and competitive, you’re just balantly trolling or hating. Nothing more to it.

[Sixclicks]

Here’s an example of the bullet drop and an assist counts as kill. He’s roughly 250 meters away based on the flag behind him. The rifle is zeroed to the default 60 meters.

Bullet Drop and Assist Counts as Kill

[Hortey]

I’d be in favor of giving recon BF1 level bullet speeds again so long as there is no area where you can 1hk to the chest.

Not in CQC where the bolt action SHOULD be a really hard weapon to use, [read: rushing a sniper should be fatal for a sniper]

Not in Mid Range where chest shots randomly just do more damage like BF1 either. It’s a marksman weapon, give them good accuracy and velocity and let players decide how powerful they are.

[Mystriall]

@DingoKillr

@Mystriall

@DingoKillr

@CptMIFF

So it should be exactly like BF1? Or what do you all suggest?

Look what BF1 has become, there are more snipers than everything on the maps.
Open areas with no where to cover, thats the main issue I have.
But it depends of the map layout to be honest.. Havent tried the alpha yet so I dont know how good each weapon are

Rifles in BF1 have the 3rd most kill primary weapon.
If you are in the open with no cover who fault is it? Yours, use what you have.

I do wonder if the rules that apply to sniper rifles was applied to other class like Semi-Auto and Assault Rifles, how they would react.
Like having glint, low velocity, massive bullet drop, be stationary for accuracy, limited ammo and slow reloads.

As for ideas how about less drag and add spread instead, a velocity that works on the internet, a sweet spot of 10 to 20m(does not have to be 1HK).

People are crying about the sniper being ruined and nerfed. It’s not. it wasn’t bad in the first alpha, i doubt it’s bad in the second alpha. I will be testing it later today. i might just make a video aswell.

As for the rules, they apply in different variations to all guns and classes, so let’s not act like the sniper is the class that’s getting all these limitations and restrictions. It’s only natural that the bullet drop is bigger at larger distances, it’s only natural that the further away you are from the target, the more movement effects the aim/bullets direction, EVERY class has to be stationary for accuracy, the fact that other classes can hit a target 10-15 meters away whilst moving alittle doesn’t mean they are accurate or hitting as well as if they had been standing still. And they would not be able to do so if it was 100-150 meters. No class can move and aim effectively at the distance, so this isn’t sniper spesific. Every class has limited ammo (with exception of support).

And let’s talk about restrictions. I played alot with the support and the MG34. Now there’s a weapon with restrictions! mainly because of it massive recoil.

1. You need to be stationary to be accurate, in fact unless your bipod is deployed, you can’t hit someone 5 meters away, even if you’re stationary (if you’re lucky you can get a hit, i didn’t get any).
2. The weapon is not that accurate even with bipod deployed at longer range. it also does little damage so most of the time even if you get a number of hits in the enemy is able to get into cover before you can finish them.
3. because it cannot be used without the bipod, it’s ineffective at close range, it took probably 2 seconds from i saw an enemy, untill i could fire at him (jumping down to the ground and then it took 1 sec before i could start firing).
4. as you are forced to be completely stationary, you are an easy target, especially for snipers. it also takes time to get up and out of cover whilst bipod is deployed, so you are sluggish whilst in that position.

So the weapon is only effective at medium range and requires good cover. How are those restrictions compared to the snipers who have to wait for 0.5 sec before pulling the trigger, and adjust for drag/bulletdrop?

Not to mention that there will likely be more rifles than just the KAR98K and likely we will see rifles with both more and less damage output. So again, why are we complaining at this point?

I will be using the MG34 in situations when it is best suited, and other weapons in other situations. As any other class will be changig weapons depending on the situation.

So let’s not say that a little more bullet drop and the damage output of 1 gun is going to ruin the whole class or game.

So to prove that I am wrong you use the MMG v rifle while I talked about rifles v SA/AR.

Well anyway thanks for proving my point rifles are meant to be situation yet the setup they are using means they are being set up for a scenario where they are meant to compete directly against SA/AR. But instead you felt it was necessary to talk about the restriction on a high rpm weapon design for short range.

We are not just talking about bullet drop or damage but combination of things.

Maybe it’s my poor grasp of the English language, but you where talking about “if the rules that apply to the sniper applies to the other classes LIKE SA/AR, and how they would react” - Now this to me means the other classes and for example SA/AR, not limited to SA/AR as you would have it based on this reply. This is why i choose to comment based on a weapon that i had more experience with using.

Regardless of this however, yes the same rules do apply to all weapons, including SA/AR, so i don’t get your point? And also, the MG-34 has an effective firing range of 200m-2000m, i.e. not short range.

I tested the sniper yesterday and had no real issue with it. I will say that the range to MIN-damage is too short though, they need to adjust that upwards a little, or adjust the MIN-damage up to 60. Other than that i feel the weapons are balanced quite well, some minor tweaking needed. I had no issues getting kills and assists counted as kills with the sniper.

[Ticket_Collector]

It’s clearly an experiment. They’ll be iterating snipers for a long time. This time, snipers are firing tennis balls.

[sp4rky46]

Totally agree with the title of this thread. Might as well not have scouts if this how they’re going to play, can be out-sniped by medics and LMGs.

[CptMIFF]

Just watched Westie 2nd alpha review, sniper looks fine. Not sure what you all are complaining about.
It isnt good enough before its 1 shot 1 kill?

Alpha map looks small anyway thats why the other weapons seems so good

[CptMIFF]

sometimes 3 shot to kill regarding health regen is maybe a bit too much. Aim for the head, you are all playing with mouse and keyboard so its all good.

[Lacanzinho]

A lot of people here thinks that you saw teams 3/4 filled with scouts in BF1 because sniping was uber easy in that game. I have to disagree. In my experience, you only saw that high number of snipers in maps that had no cover.

BF1 had tons of really open maps (and how Dice chose Narvik to be the first shown map in BFV, just as Sinai, looks they’re going in the same direction :neutral: )

And another reason would be that balance was so poor in BF1 that a lot of times you just stayed at your spawn in cover with your trusty 1903 because your team is being and pushing with any other class would just make your gameplay really frustrating

Show me I’m wrong, send a snapshot of a team half filled with snipers on fort de vaux or even amiens. And if you criticize players of using snipers on Galicia or Suez, something is probably wrong with you. Don’t criticize the players or don’t witch hunt the weapons, but blame map design.

Map design was the killer of BF1, because WW1 didn’t have many urban fights but tons of open fields. And we all know that urban gameplay is gaming at it’s finest.

[Ace-Cardd]

@CptMIFF

Just watched Westie 2nd alpha review, sniper looks fine. Not sure what you all are complaining about.
It isnt good enough before its 1 shot 1 kill?

Alpha map looks small anyway thats why the other weapons seems so good

So, you don’t understand that at longer distances (>250) sniper rifles will be useless because of massive bullet drop (@Sixclicks post) and very slow muzzle velocity. It’s mean that rifles will be the only ones ineffective weapons on all range. Next time before you start talking stupid about aiming to the the head, check yourself even in bf4(better zeroing, better damage, better muzzle velocity) how hard to hit head of a moving target on long distance.

[Sixclicks]

@Ace-Cardd

@CptMIFF

Just watched Westie 2nd alpha review, sniper looks fine. Not sure what you all are complaining about.
It isnt good enough before its 1 shot 1 kill?

Alpha map looks small anyway thats why the other weapons seems so good

So, you don’t understand that at longer distances (>250) sniper rifles will be useless because of massive bullet drop (@Sixclicks post) and very slow muzzle velocity. It’s mean that rifles will be the only ones ineffective weapons on all range. Next time before you start talking stupid about aiming to the the head, check yourself even in bf4(better zeroing, better damage, better muzzle velocity) how hard to hit head of a moving target on long distance.

That’s exactly the problem. At very long ranges where the scout class actually has an advantage over the other classes, the bullet drop and time to target is so massive that the weapons still aren’t that effective. Especially when, as in my previous example, you can get behind cover and regenerate 46 health over 6 seconds and survive another shot. Essentially you’re stuck taking shots at stationary targets or targets running across flat ground. On targets running over rough terrain, prepare to be disappointed with your 51 damage arm shot as their arm blocks their chest hitbox. Which is another problem. The dropoff range of scout rifles is 60 meters. That’s absolutely pathetic for a weapon with a slow fire rate that’s intended for long ranged use.

Meanwhile, I can just quickly triple tap you with a G43 to the chest in half the time or 4 if I’m hitting your limbs. Plus I don’t have to worry about scope glint then, and I can quickly heal myself should a sniper hit me anyway.

Even if there are some other longer ranged and more open maps similar to BF4 where snipers were taking shots at 500+ meters away, you’re probably not going to be able to land those shots. At 300 meters you’re looking at 3.25 meters of drop. At 500 meters you’re looking at a massive 16.3 meters of drop. On top of that, when shooting at a target 300 meters away, you’re adding 742 ms to your TTK due to the bullet travel time. At 500 meters it’s a whopping 1658 ms.

Essentially, you’ll need to camp just outside of the G43’s magnification range, only take shots at stationary targets, or be a headshot God to do well with the new sniper class. In any other situation, you’re better off as a medic with the G43.

So far most of my kills as a sniper in the 2nd alpha have come from assists, stationary targets (usually other snipers), or while shooting down the straight and level walkway between B and D where it was easy to line up headshots. Everyone always likes to say, “well look at Westie or look at Stodeh! They’re doing fine!” Yeah, but I guarantee you they’ll perform better and score better playing with the G43 or an automatic weapon with significantly less effort. Even the best of snipers like Stodeh are only running a 32.4% headshot rate with the high velocity rifles of BF1.

[Ace-Cardd]

Even Stodeh said today that the Kar98k muzzle velocity and bullet drop is a joke.

[Sixclicks]

@Ace-Cardd

Even Stodeh said today that the Kar98k muzzle velocity and bullet drop is a joke.

Yeah, I actually just watched that video. I’m gonna have to try his suggestion of keeping the rifle zero at 150 meters though. Maybe that’ll help a little.