Auto regenerating grenades is a terrible idea.
Reducing grenade spam will never happen with grenades auto regenerating.
It’s like wiping your butt before you poo. It just doesn’t make sense.
Removing grenade resupply from pouches was enough of a change to reduce the spam.
Objective complete.
If you want crates to do all this other stuff. Then by all means. But proceed without auto regenerating grenades.
I hope you’re joking, all that would do is increase campers exponentially.
No, because you would have lower ammo starting amount but would be more frequent supply rates and it would not apply to all items unlike now.
Those make sense when Tracking ammo count through death you have the same timer remain and some types would always be reset to start levels. Ammo overcharge would be on set items not everything.
Example of what could happen.
Tracking ammo count through death
Dying when you grenade was 20s left when respawn you would still have 20s left.
Rifle 10/0 was when you died would be 10/10
Ammo overcharge
LMG 100/20 overcharged would be when the next timed ammo would be 100/120
AT Grenade spawn in as 1/0 after 1 minute it would be 1/1
Yeah, I like his idea too.
Exactly.
Auto regen for grenades allows DICE to increase the grenade resupply time without trying to resupply a complete joke.
Likewise, for primary weapon ammo and gadgets, this allows for the possibility of reducing the amount of ammo carried for both without making the game frustrating, thus augmenting the Support’s utility.
Exactly.
People get caught up in the face of things and not looking at the context and the math involved. All they hear is “muh regeneration” without knowing
The super quick resupply timer of before
BF4 taking forever to resupply
As well the spam of corridors
You can’t and have both less grenade spam and the ability to resupply grenades. It will not and never will happen with a basic timer. This regeneration is a smart direction without enough impact and I’m glad DICE ignored the majority of the community ignorant of the issue.
Yeah sure 7% wasn’t a whole lot but it never increased it. Anyone saying it did was either ignorant of the system or lieing for their own perception of the game.
Not to mention gadget resupplys. Look at BF4 and how terrible that is. The timer to resupply the most basic thing is so long it proves your time moving more valuable then waiting. I can’t remember the last time I resupplyed a RPG or Smaw from a ammo bag.
People say “OMG the BF1 support is now so useless” and then quotes BF4 for a good mechanic.
Then before all that in BF4 you had what people are having before the regeneration, spam at corridors, remember XM25 and it constantly resupplying on lock or metro making it a bad experience for everyone? Or RPGs and Laws being swapped back and forth? This also applied for smaller games modes like it will BF1. Example being people spamming airbrusting and grenade launchers at mcom making arming impossible.
The same applies to gadgets as it did with grenades. Reduce spam while making the supply timer low for large maps, then making sure the support is viable and the regeneration makes it all work.
What a great wall of text. Ammo 2.0 should be aborted. Nobody wanted it, nobody cared and it takes time away from fixing things that really need fixing.
No, nobody was ever committing suicide to get grenades back in BF4. This is something I have seen a dev peddle as a part of BF4 meta. While it technically might have been faster to redeploy to get a grenade back than wait at a ammo box that does not mean people were doing it.
Its not a complex problem. The problem was there was alot of grenade spam because you could get grenades back via ammo pouches near instantly while being able to maintain 100% mobility. This was a oversight by dice that could have easily been fixed anytime in the last 6 months by either severely increasing the time to resupply grenades via the pouch or removing the grenade resupply from it completely
This system does abandon the need for the support class. It still leaves them in a position where they are a benefit but aren’t needed like previously.
Why do people think support class only resupplied nades? It didn’t effect the role of support that much at all. People still need ammo,flares, other explosives and more. Also drastically reduces wait time on nades. Support is still a big part of the game. Auto health regeneration does not eliminate the need for medics. So one nade appearing in you pocket doesn’t hurt support.
It’s not okay because if the supports don’t need to drop ammo you’ve cut out an entire class’s usefulness. The point of a support is to lay down suppressive fire and keep the team shooting by dropping ammo. If you let everyone get ammo back without having a support, what’s the point of playing the class?
Yes you can regen heath automatically, but it’s extremely slow, so the medic makes it faster. This system works with your health, however I don’t think it works for ammo. Your heath regenerating means nothing when you don’t have the bullets to fight back.
When we look at Call of Duty for instance, sure your heath comes back fast, but the longer you stay alive the harder it is to stay alive because you can’t resupply your ammo without a special ability. If you run out of ammo your heath regen means squat.
The support class is honestly undervalued sense Hardline because it seems like they’ve slowly been taking away the actual necessity of the user to actually play the class (I’m talking the hold button to take ammo system).
Plus it also raises the question of what else a medic could and should do. The medic class is centered around keeping the team alive. They have revive tools and grenade launchers, both tools that can hold the enemy back while bringing friendlies back into the fight.
Taking away support’s resupply would be similar to taking away medic’s revive. You’d be cutting down on the classes usefulness and therefore you’d have less people knowing how to actually play the class properly, which we already see partly because of the fact everyone can get health without medics. It’s sometimes hard to get a medic to be a medic because everyone knows you’ll be fine in a few seconds.
This isint a problem with health however, because 90% of a medics job should be reviving, just like 90% of a supports job should be dropping ammo.
I was wrongly speaking more in terms of the future of what is planned for “Ammo 2.0” which seems to be to convert everything to a auto-regen type system. In that system the need for a support is abandoned.
With how the system currently works they have just taken one step that way and made the support slightly less needed.
Grenades appearing in your pocket does hurt support because you use grenades often. Very rarely is the average player going to a support because they are out of ammo for their gun for instance. So people that would normally be going to get another grenade and whatever small portion of their ammo they used no longer need to because they are getting a grenade without needing to interact with a support so until they start running low on something they can’t get without a support (like bullets) only then do they need to go to a support player.
Got ya. I play a lot of support. I don’t see much difference because I always go to players and drop cretes. I don’t wait for them to come to me. I will give you ammo weather you need it or not.
I understand where you are going with this and fundamentally it is not a bad plan. It seems you are using statistical gathering to determine how often actions should take place.
e.g.
I see nothing fundamentally wrong with this approach. The only exception is it does not seem anyone is actually looking at point #1. Each game mode has a unique ecosystem based on the map being played. Lets look at Scar…
On Conquest, it is basically a running simulator in which there are almost zero choke points and grendade spam is not nearly the same level of problem. Furthermore with 5 caps (I believe it is 5 ), the distribution of soldiers is vast.
On Operations, each very small sector has only 2 objectives (3 on one sector). Usually only 1 is really being contested with a fraction of the total population being on the “Defend this point” objective. After the first objective has been taken, you have 48+ soldiers all fighting over a single pretty tiny point on the map. This is a far different ecosystem than conquest.
This idea would work just fine if anyone was willing to set different rules for different game modes. It is not like you lack the ability to have a menu item that tells you the rules of that game mode. Heck, that would be nice anyhow as we still have no answer from the developers on the exact nature of tank respawns…
Lastly, you state that the grenade spam has gone down by 7%. I am not arguing that statistic, but statistics are only as good as the variables you are polling. Yes in choke points, grenade spam has reduced because you cannot resupply as fast as you use to be able to. But I am willing to be a full paycheck that the distribution of grenades thrown randomly around the maps have substantially increased. What I mean is, prior to the patch the distribution of grenade spam was limited to very specific locations you knew to avoid based on map knowledge. After the patch, I am seeing random grenades being thrown just because there “may” be a person in that direction. I am being blown up far more often (and that is a fact because I always avoided the grenade choke points).
As another user has pointed out, this is the exact same problem with aircraft on operations. The auto resupply of explosives is far to fast given the tight quarters soldiers are forced into. But instead of actually looking at the individual modes, you looked at conquest (where FAA regenerates, and soldiers are pretty well spread out) and decided it was a good idea to nerf the FAA. No one seems to be looking at adjusting parameters per mode. I just do not believe you are going to find a “one size fits all” solution for all modes and maps.
TheQue
How does this system abandon the need for a support? You can either wait the 36 seconds(for frags, soon to be 49 seconds) or you have a support in your squad that can speed up the process to the point where you can get 3 grenades in that same 36 seconds. Playing the expansions maps, you see supports and crates everywhere. Also how long does the average bf1 player live? I doubt it is more than 49 seconds on average.
Yet again the future of the game is being discussed in some secret thread hidden on reddit, just close these official forums and move everything to reddit. CTE put some bad game changes into BF4 and it is doing the same on BF1. Real players play it for 5 mins then go back to the real game, comentards, planefreaks and hill humping snipers get their requests in to get the game nerfed to suit sitting on a hill or picking off kills from the air.
It was clear from the changes that giving free ammo would be an issue, whilst this may see a decrease in CTE on DICE stats this is not what is being seen in game.
7% decrease, possible, but most players are playing the new maps and these are spam city and if there is 7% decrease, why is there such an overall increase. The only stats we players have access to ( https://battlefieldtracker.com/bf1/insights ) show that nade kills have significantly increased from about 8.3-8.4% of kills to 9.8-9.8% of kills, given that nades mostly damage, miss and don’t kill this is a massive increase in nade spam.
Auto-recharging is not battlefield. You not near a crate, you don’t get ammo.
That’s not really fair, A lot of us in CTE told DICE that was a dumb as hell idea, They just ignored it and put it in anyways without caring at all.
What happens if DICE restricted your primary weapon ammo to only one or two magazines? Then Support becomes really useful.
In addition to this, you add auto regenerating ammo, so that if there are no Supports nearby, you aren’t totally screwed, and you can simply wait for more ammo. Just like you wait for health to start regenerating.
I personally would have chosen a more teamplay focused resupply system to decrease grenade spam. Not just teamplay between Support and other classes but teamplay across the board.
For example: people would need to accomplish certain tasks before they get their grenade back (grenade only).
Assault - Destroy X (3?) vehicles or disable X (5?) vehicles.
Medic - Revive X (5?) people or heal a total of X (1000?) hp of teammates (not self).
Support - Resupply a total of X (amount worth of the full ammo capacity of 10 players?) ammo/gadgets.
Scouts - Get X (30?) spot assists.
All classes - Capture X (3?) flags or defend X (2?) flags.
Or something similar like this.
Depending on whether people would chose death over teamplay, the resupply of grenads on spawn could be disabled. And in case you really want that close and physical interaction with a Support, it could be made so that you have to go to a create/pouch after fulfilling your teamplay task.
Edit: But I’m open to Ammo 2.0. I guess there could be worse systems and I’m curious in how things turn out.
The change where players deploy without their full capacity ammo/gadgets not only helps the support class & gets everyone relying on that aspect of team orientated play but it may also help the medic class with all the people that may currently “skip revive” to redeploy for ammo.
Players may not be so quick to skip if they don’t redeploy with more ammo than what they had.