Hit Detection

[KingTolapsium]

@redraptor987

Hardcore doesn’t fix desync issues… or server performance issues.

All it does is make bratty teammates more annoying, as now they are lethal, and boost snipers to god status.

What does that fix, Mr Raptor?

[redraptor987]

@KingTolapsium

@redraptor987

Hardcore doesn’t fix desync issues… or server performance issues.

All it does is make bratty teammates more annoying, as now they are lethal, and boost snipers to god status.

What does that fix, Mr Raptor?

Because you don’t get hit markers so you wouldn’t know anyway. And snipers are not God, you can’t get 1 hit kills across the map unless its a headshot

[TheOver50Gamer]

B) Until they sort it go on US servers if your in the UK, which will be for quite sometime because all the comments are lip service and smoke screens from them to quieten the masses. All the companies are the same they don’t actually care about the people who buy the product because no matter what we always buy the next and the next one thinking maybe just maybe this time they will actually fix what has been a big point some quite some years now lag compensation. The COD games are the worst for it and they don’t have any choice to pick a server, so go enjoy yourselves on BF1 in the land of the free and home of the brave, play OOR today.

Note to Dice
That should be your strap line!

[SupremeEpidemic]

@TheOver50Gamer

B) Until they sort it go on US servers if your in the UK, which will be for quite sometime because all the comments are lip service and smoke screens from them to quieten the masses. All the companies are the same they don’t actually care about the people who buy the product because no matter what we always buy the next and the next one thinking maybe just maybe this time they will actually fix what has been a big point some quite some years now lag compensation. The COD games are the worst for it and they don’t have any choice to pick a server, so go enjoy yourselves on BF1 in the land of the free and home of the brave, play OOR today.

Note to Dice
That should be your strap line!

SMH

[oJU5T1No]

I couldn’t buy a kill in this match the values on the netgraph are the same for games that are unplayble and 1’s that aren’t that bad for me, I hope for some improvements next patch because i’m tired of other players lagging me out the game.

I’m on the cheapest adsl connection you can get here £5 a month i’m always around 30ms on eu severs with no packet loss , jitter measures at 1-2ms. I don’t think all the players I see in this game lagging all over the place genuinely have connections that are that bad, I think most players are purposely adding latency to there connections and playing oor to gain an advantage, thats what happens when you have a netcode that favours high latency its easily abused.
I don’t know if you was running a different netcode or it was the lack of a server browser (so you couldn’t play oor) but the beta ran so much better for me i’d get an odd couple games that were a lagfest but for the most part it wasn’t that bad, I felt duped when the game was realised and very quickly turned into an unplayable lagfest.

[stevebalmer2]

The yellow latency issue icon that pops up every second on my screen may as well be a giant middle finger. This game is a giant middle finger to anyone that wants to play a fair game.

Gotta love when horses are juking around like Running Back due to rubber banding. Great game EA!

[emerson1975]

So in real terms what the Dev won’t say is
" We sold to people without regional server’s"

[KingTolapsium]

@emerson1975

So in real terms what the Dev won’t say is
" We sold to people without regional server’s"

Everyone has bosses telling them what to do.

I’m sure an EA higher up loved the idea of smooth gameplay over a 3g hotspot.

[misisipiRivrRat]

@SupremeEpidemic

For the record, I DO NOT want an advantage of any sort! I WANT a smooth experience in the NA region that was designed for my location.

Yes sir! I am competitive and want to win as much as the next guy. Win or lose I just want it to be a smooth experience . Not some wonky wtf experience .

[oJU5T1No]

I just want to win or lose for once based on skill not connection.

[Michael_Seaman]

@misisipiRivrRat

@SupremeEpidemic

For the record, I DO NOT want an advantage of any sort! I WANT a smooth experience in the NA region that was designed for my location.

Yes sir! I am competitive and want to win as much as the next guy. Win or lose I just want it to be a smooth experience . Not some wonky wtf experience .

Yes this!

@oJU5T1No

I just want to win or lose for once based on skill not connection.

Yes this 1000 times over!

[FlopTrain]

@mischkag

Again i understand that this is the ideal solution. But outside an actual ping cap, what would you feel would be a good enough advantage for low pingers without making the game unplayable for high pingers.

The game should be unplayable for high ping. It isn’t and that is the problem. Dice/EA’s servers are set up now to try and compensate for a player’s super high ping/latency, instead of getting rid of them.

There needs to be a limit where the server says, enough is enough and boots the bad connections. There are vids in these forums, that prove this doesn’t happen. Showing guys running and gunning, killing folks just fine, at 900ms.

There are so many solutions to this problem that are fair to all involved…

Ping restricted private servers? Why can’t we have these?

Add a few ping restricted servers in each region and have a bunch of open international servers.

Add something to all existing servers that kicks any connection that goes over 200ms(or some limit at least is better than none) and gets rid of unstable, fluctuating, or stressed connections.

Quickmatch should only place players from the same region together.

EA could actually start providing server support in all the regions they sell the game to, also.

It is honestly like you guys are trying to develop this game to run well on WiFi with a bad connection, instead of the other way around.

I want to say thanks to you though, for interacting with the community on the forums. It is much appreciated. We had begun to feel like we were constantly being ignored,..having not seen or heard from a dev on here in years. Kudos to you, for your efforts!

[Mosvalve]

@mmarkweII

@SupremeEpidemic

@StarvingMillions

It was my first time playing out of region today (with members of a sister clan). I live in the US, but the clan members were from Europe, so they were in a European server, obviously. Once I joined them, I could tell that the hit detection for me was atrocious right of the bat. I didn’t feel I had an advantage at all playing out of region like many here have thought to be true.

But hey, this was MY personal experience. Your experience may be vastly different from mine. Needless to say, I’ll be avoiding playing out of region while running solo in the future.

I too have tried playing out of region, but dont get “the oor advantage”. I dont understand the technicalities of the way the devs have the servers set up, but @mischkag said him/herself that there is an advantage for high pingers. I posted a screenshot of my netgraph(a few posts up, on this thread) for NA East. Im by far a high pinger, so that maybe why I dont get the “advantage” playing oor.

For every so called “advantage” for a high ping player, there is a disadvantage. Pros and cons for both low ping and high ping players. It has been acknowledged by the devs on all fronts. Netgraph helps in determining the root cause of issues most of the time.

What are the parameters and their meaning? I know wha some mean, but others I don’t. Is there somewhere that I can learn to read and interpret the data so I can understand it myself? Thanks.

[SupremeEpidemic]

@Mosvalve

Is there somewhere that I can learn to read and interpret the data so I can understand it myself? Thanks.

Google, or your search engine of choice. Just saying. o:)

[Mosvalve]

@denjoga

Wow, wow, wow…
Just found this thread and wondering if I am hallucinating!
@mischkag first, let me say that the “hate and rage” from the player base is directly related to the amount (or lack) of communication from the developer.
Just look at the minuscule amount of unpleasantness in this thread compared to any other with no DICE participation.
So, thank you for FINALLY engaging in conversation with us regarding these issues which have been around since (for me, anyway) BF3.
Throughout BF3 and well into BF4, the HUGE issue of HORRIBLE hit/damage reg and lag comp was completely ignored by DICE while vicious battles raged in the forums over advantages/disadvantages due to connection quality (I still have the scars ).

So far, BF1 feels vastly improved, in terms of ‘net code’, over BF3 & 4.
I say “so far” because my experience w/ 3 & 4 was that, over time, as the player base grew around the globe, the quality of the experience degraded.
I have seen a slight decline in quality in this game since Christmas, as others have mentioned, but so far not as bad as the previous titles.

I am so glad to have this ‘netcode’ issue not just finally acknowledged but actually being discussed openly - I can’t even express what a huge difference it makes in my attitude towards DICE just to know that we’re finally having this conversation.

Anyway, all that having been said, I’d just like to add my 2 cents about spotting;
First, there is definitely a noticeable connection between poor server performance re: hit/damage reg and spot functioning.
I can always tell that when I start having problems getting spotting to work, that I’ll also start having hit reg problems.
I am an habitual, obsessive spotter.
In previous titles, I developed a rhythm with the spot button to avoid triggering the cool-down which worked very well but, then again, spotting worked much more reliably than in this game.

For this game, you need to either make spotting far more sensitive and responsive, or eliminate the cool-down mechanic.
I don’t know exactly what factors affect whether or not a spot attempt is successful (it has been mentioned that weapon/sight and environmental effects are factors) but one thing seems perfectly logical to me; if I can see an enemy, I should be able to spot that enemy. Period.
Even if it’s just a tiny silhouette on the horizon, if I can see it, I can point it out to my teammates.

I have also noticed, as another poster mentioned, that I can spot planes without any difficulty at all, tanks with very little difficulty compared to infantry and, when the airship is in the sky, it is very difficult NOT to spot it - I can be facing 90* away, looking at enemy infantry and the blimp gets spotted but not the soldier.

These leads me to believe it may be a “hit-box” issue - as if the spotting hit-box for infantry is very precise while for vehicles it is variably coarse.

Sorry for such a long post - brevity has never been my strong suit.

TL;DR SUMMARY:
Please give some attention to the spotting mechanic and either make it much more sensitive and responsive or remove the overheat/cool-down mechanic.

THANK YOU!!!

edit: PS: it just occurred to me that in BF3 for sure and BF4 iirc, there was a sound effect to let you know that you had overheated the spot function. That same thing would go a long way towards improving the spotting experience in this game, if the overheat/cool-down remains.

I would like to say that I would agree with a great majority of your post. The only thing I would like to say about the spotting mechanic is this: I feel very frustrated at times with the spotting mechanic. I would concur with you that your experience is my exact experience to the T. I notice that I have a harder time spotting enemies that are further away (naturally, unless they shooting towards me). I wonder if the sporting mechanic has been changed since BF3 & BF4 and we just don’t know how it has changed…Or it could just be totally broken. I normally try to give DICE the benefit of the doubt.

[Mosvalve]

@KingTolapsium

I think we can equalize the field without placing a specific limit on high ping, instead have a reactive system serverside.

If you have a ping over 250ms why should your packets allow you the peakers advantage? Why can’t there be a reduction in responsiveness? Why should the word ADVANTAGE be associated with the worst kind of connection?

It feels like a bad joke (I would still be hatefully salty had I not read your comments regarding the current net code state, and plans going forward).

Street fighter makes the high ping players controls less immediate to synchronize things (delay between button press and action). Perhaps a similar system could be implemented with high ping player movement? (Not aim, that would feel horrible)

Rubber banding should be expected when your ping is SO FAR ABOVE acceptable margins.

The game should not feel as equally smooth with high ping, it’s great for playability, but you are sacrificing the integrity of the match. Lag, for a laggy player is absolutely fair, you can smooth it out, but that smoothness needs to stop offering an advantage.

Would it really “ruin the game” to give a high ping player some fair rubber banding when they try to jump shot around corners? (They are effectively killing low ping players as specters)

@mischkag

Currently, you are creating an environment that encourages regional abuse. There must be some tangible negative aspects to playing with high ping, it’s the only way to curb players into proper regional play. (We can keep the idealist mindset, but please, we need to put up some safety nets for good connections).

(Side note) seems like damage delivery gets totally botched when lots of damage is being calculated, a flame trooper was near me burning a few friendlies, and my framerate felt like it was dipping into the 30s, on ps4 pro.

There are some significant issues with your virtual servers and performance with extrapolation on clients, the extrapolation of large amounts of player interactiond seems to tank my framerate on my pro, so that’s probably some kind of horrible bug, right?

Well said, as I would agree exactly as to what you have stated here. “Advantage” isn’t the thing here. The players with low ping should never feel slighted for losing a gun fight to another laggy player. I also understand mischkag’s comments about not wanting to penalize high ping players.

The street fighter idea seems like the perfect middle ground to the situation. After all, the lag comp is in the game because of high ping players. If everyone had great connections, we wouldn’t need lag comp at all.

[Mosvalve]

@Michael_Seaman

@RichardPye843

@mischkag

Hey guys, again thanks a lot for your feedback and productive input. First of all we DO NOT deliberately punish low ping players. Infact i worked really hard to make the game as responsive and tight for low ping players as possible. However, for high network variance(or fluctuation), i got to buffer some more and hence it will be a very smooth experience for them. I did fix quite a bit of hit detection related issues already, but it will take time before it gets out in a patch. Will be featured in CTE soon though. Region locks would obviously help, a first step should be a region lock option for rented servers. If you pay for a server, you should imho have the power and choice to do that.
The extrapolation offset is essentially the time i need to add for lag compensation to make sure we always have 2 states to interpolate between and not run into extrapolation whre it becomes an educated guessing game. High pingers will have such a fluctuation that you often have them running into extrapolation on your client and once a new state from them comes in, a pop/teleport/rubberband may occur. Of course that could be blended more smoothly, but you really dont want to place soldiers on any client where they have in fact never been on the server or the originating client. I know this is a bit technical, but it really is not so simple to make the game super responsive and rewarding for low ping players while the game has to be still playable for high ping ones. As long as we can have higher ping players due to lack of region support, i need to make at least sure the game runs for everybody. Sure, I’d love to reward the low ping player more, but an active punishment for high ping does not feel right to me.

No one is saying that you “deliberately” are punishing low ping players but that is in fact what is happening. The low ping player is in fact being punished. The people who go out of their way to pay extra to have the smoothest experience possible are the ones experiencing the most frustrations. For what? So the people that do not go out of their way can have an equal experience. Where is the logic in that? The people who pay to have the best exeperience should in fact have just that. The people with high pings SHOULD experience problems because they have HIGH PINGS. This compensation for an equal experience is madness. People who pay extra to have a high speed internet connection do this to avoid frustrations not have them handed to them because of it. They do not do it for an advantage (at least not in my case) they do it to avoid unwated aggrevations. The end result feeling ,when in fact they are being frustrated due to the low ping, does feel like a form of being punished. An active punishment that goes to the low ping player because it “does not feel right to you” to punish the high ping player is simply WRONG!

The lack of region support is not the low ping players fault! It is DICE’s fault. It is their job to go out and get that support and provide it to their customers. To provide more server locations for more regions. To consolidate them and actively punish those who are in region and have the lowest ping is morally WRONG. I dont know how more clearly I can say it. To ruin the experience of players with low pings to make the game playable to high ping players is WRONG! For whatever motivation it may be. My theory is a financial one. To save money on these region server locations so DICE compensates with code simply to increase profit margins. I am willing to bet I am not very far from the truth with this since EA is involved. Since the bottmline is all they are concerned about and quarterly earnings. To impress stock holders! They can careless about an enjoyable gaming experience since what they want to do is keep crapping out unfinished games, rake in revenue after sale, and finish these games with patches while the game is in the customers hands already. Giving the customer less and yet charging more and more with added DLC which some may argue should already be in the game. Also with crappy business models like the battlepack system copied from COD which is nothing but a cash grab and we all know this to be true. I am a capitalist so I understand the reasoning if this is true but sometimes it is better to appease the fan base with the most popular title which is Battlefield. MANY are STILL feeling burned after the most recent BF4 fiasco. This is just more of the same to them. Though I do appreciate the attempts to at least communicate and respond to peoples concerns and for that I am overly joyed about. We all remember the dead silence with the the problems BF4 had and the silence then was deafining. At least you want to fix the problems and please everyone. The argument now is who should have these frustrations and mine is the ones who paid extra NOT to have them to begin with.

I agree with your assessment. What it all boils down to is there are “haves” and “have nots” unfortunately in this world of “everyone must be equal” the “have nots” are entitled to have their game work smoothly at the expense of the “haves”.

I’ve discussed this exact problem at length in many a multiplayer forum only to be lambasted as a hater and and everything else.

Ultimately, it comes down to one thing more than anything other: MONEY. If a majority of the people that buy the game have crappy connections, game companies try to make it easier on us who have a better connection to the game but ultimately would rather sell more copies to the crappy connection crew because it makes them more money.

The haves and have nots…

[Mosvalve]

@mischkag

There are a couple of things here. As an engineer i tried to make the netcode very responsive and able to handle any sort of ping and variance. There was no initiative by EA to artificially make the game run super well for high pingers to save money with providing less regions. That is simply a false statement. It is probably also my fault to have pushed hard to compensate for higher ping variances as Rubberbanding was also a major complaint when BF4 was released (not just caused by server spikes). Now the game obviously still works best if you are on a level playing field with low pings across all players. Server costs are obviously always a topic but where it makes sense (in terms of geographical proximity and player base), EA tries to provide server centers. Now it is true that Quickmatch can match Brazil to US East and US East - West if there are no available matching servers. But i presume we are more talking about Server Browser here. I have to agree with you guys though. The fact that the game simply runs too well for high pingers, encourages players to join explicitly out of region. Next on my list is to address that. I will make it much harder to hit something for high pingers, i wont artificially induce Rubberbanding or movement hurdles though. I think it should be harder to hit somebody, that is what the game ultimately boils down to. Seeing your strong feedback encourages me to explore options to make it much harder for high ping players. Once they feel like they suck with higher ping, the problem will solve itself. I still like to push the necessity to region lock servers. It is an ongoing discussion and I personally believe it is getting traction.
As far as the character model comment above goes, i dont quite understand that. There is no desync. How do you know what the high ping client is actually doing? Plz dont judge from the spectator view which is artificially put behind by 500ms.

I would like to say thank you for trying to make BF1 a better experience. I believe this is one of the best BF games ever realesed. I think I’ve had more fun playing this game than any other BF game.

That being said, the game seems broken when the weirdness starts mainly OOR players, high ping, etc. I would say that artificially introducing rubber banding, etc. would be bad but what about delaying the players input for shooting in direct relation to their ping? How viable is that?

The server browser portion of the game seems to be very counter intuitive almost broken…but that’s for a different thread.

Thanks again.

[FlopTrain]

@lizzard

@VBALL_MVP

@iSpyRecon

What happened to “high ping on your local isn’t a problem”?(cough) lol Happy too see they disagree ‘again’ and will attempt address it… then again, we had been told the very same thing in BF4. My $0.02 is for a reasonable ping limiter and NOT a region lock.

More misquotes. Stated it wasn’t an advantage. Please quote me right.

Also what I saw there are still many bugs that need to be addressed an more need to understand the netgraph.

Thanks to @KingTolapsium and @mischkag for explaining the extr offset value on netgraph.

Naaah.. Im on Mr spyguy’s side on this one.
It cant be a misquote. Since you have said “that high ping is not an issue” in about every way its possible to say it!

although your agenda behind saying it was clearly to troll. But it is still not a misquote!

Can we please write honest stuff in this thread. And stay away from the word and statements twisting troll bating!

Agree!!! 100% Curious how quick those that were saying high ping/latency wasn’t an issue at all,..have changed their tune in this thread!!!

Really sad that they got away with all the aggravation they caused with their constant antagonizing and trolling of forum posters, this whole time.

A post from a dev could have shut them up long ago.

[mmarkweII]

@FlopTrain

@lizzard

@VBALL_MVP

@iSpyRecon

What happened to “high ping on your local isn’t a problem”?(cough) lol Happy too see they disagree ‘again’ and will attempt address it… then again, we had been told the very same thing in BF4. My $0.02 is for a reasonable ping limiter and NOT a region lock.

More misquotes. Stated it wasn’t an advantage. Please quote me right.

Also what I saw there are still many bugs that need to be addressed an more need to understand the netgraph.

Thanks to @KingTolapsium and @mischkag for explaining the extr offset value on netgraph.

Naaah.. Im on Mr spyguy’s side on this one.
It cant be a misquote. Since you have said “that high ping is not an issue” in about every way its possible to say it!

although your agenda behind saying it was clearly to troll. But it is still not a misquote!

Can we please write honest stuff in this thread. And stay away from the word and statements twisting troll bating!

Agree!!! 100% Curious how quick those that were saying high ping/latency wasn’t an issue at all,..have changed their tune in this thread. Really sad that they got away with all the aggravation they have caused with their constant antagonizing and trolling of forum posters, this whole time. A post from a dev could have shut them up long ago.

Nobody ever said “high ping is not an issue”. The problem is some people can’t understand what has been said. But then a dev shows up, says the exact same things, and all of a sudden those people magically understand…please. Stop the misinformation and the passive aggressive stuff. Stick to facts, with data. Not assumptions.