Here is the problem. Take a gun like the BAR, the BAR right now has a ttk that is extremely close to a bulk of medic cqb weapons inside 30 meters(Cei Rigott, m1907, Fedorov Avtomat). With the ttk shift, the BAR gets significantly stronger, while the medic cqb weapons stay exactly the same. The same could be said about the madsen and chauchat. You then have long range lmgs that will be equal to the best cqb weapons the medics have.
Why would you want to use a mid range weapon like a Mondragon or Cei Rigotti when you can run around with a Browning that fires faster, holds 200 rounds, and is a hell of a lot easier to use? You have to remember when this whole thing was talked about, a ROF buff for medics was essential to the whole ttk change working, but since that isn’t possible, medics are left in a very strange spot. They get weaker in cqb, and are weaker at mid range. There has been talk about more changes and tweaks, but we haven’t seen anything new since September.
Yeah I don’t think I ever disagreed that there weren’t outlier guns in the current balance patch. I’m just in agreement with the premise of the update, which is to improve player agency and enable us to feel like an individual contribution can be meaningful. Target saturation is real in this game and it’s a large part of the general campiness of multiplayer. I’ve been enjoying TTK a lot more because there’s more movement less limp noodles waiting for kills to come to them.
I also am not really seeing medic outgunned there, as I’m continuing to play him most of the time (I have like class rank 20 for medic to like 12 as my next highest in the CTE) and I’m just not really seeing it. Auto revolver still mops the floor with assaults so I don’t really feel like he’s lagging behind. I’m also not opposed to more buffs coming his way if other people feel that strongly but I’m trying to say is that it’s really not the end of the world.
I’m not saying the new TTK is perfect, only that it’s an improvement to the gameplay we have now. Which is a lot of campy slow gameplay where people deadlock and spam explosives as a result.
So I am a “trash poster”. It’s funny, because I’m not the one who has been banned for an entire month for being toxic af. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Changing a basic thing on the game such as TTK more than a year after its release doesn’t say much about the developer team - only that they don’t even know what to do with their own product.
I feel this change was made so that Assaults and Supports can be happy fighting each other and destroying anyone else who enters their playground, while Medics and Scouts are far away on the hills taking pot shots between them.
And yes, CQB is my main concern as Medic, because that’s where other players will need my help. The Scout/Support behind a rock won’t need me since he will just hide until he has enough HP to come out again.
I still don’t know why you are having such a hard time understanding that.
The thing is I’m not completely against it, but being a work in progress I thought we would be further along in the tweaking of this. There really hasn’t been anything changed since the bipod changes back in September.
It really is bizarre what little confidence they have in the decisions they make. Just pick something and stick with it, don’t constantly nerf and buff things to appease the crybabies. You’d think a 15 year old company would have learned this by now.
I’d rather the whole weapons change thing was completely dropped. But if less aggro scouts and more hill-humpers is what you want, then so be it. It doesn’t even make much sense to use the M.95 anymore when the RSC also kills in 2 hits, has a faster fire rate, and will now kill in 2 hits out to 70 meters.
I’d still rather have them work to produce the game they ultimately wanted to make (since these are closer to the damage values the game originally had before it was shown to EA) since the sweet spot and the rest of it were balanced better in this mock up.
Then some EA rep said it didn’t ‘feel like WW1’ as if military weapons of the age were not using excessively higher powered cartridges compared to today (and regular soldiers wearing no armor beyond badly designed helmets).
But they never powered down the Scout rifles so its pretty obvious where the problem started. And now in the current game we have a couple automatic guns being used to the exclusion of all other guns in the game simply because they’re the only ones that feel competitive to most players.
Just because it’s the system we know doesn’t mean it’s not chokablock with issues. New TTK dives into the heart of the problem and can only really be faulted for being overly ambitious at this point in the game’s life. But it’s still closer to the original design intention of the studio so I hope it doesn’t go the way of ammo 2.0.
Thanks for discussing this in the thread. It’s really insightful and got me thinking about the few things. I remembered now why they introduced it to begin with:
From what the devs said in the original post on Reddit in response to a thread asking if they plan to do anything to prevent all weapons from feeling similar and only having a few go to options, the reason behind the changes considered was to give more authenticity to gun types and individual weapons. To break the cycle of ‘‘one or two suitable weapons per class’’ or ‘‘one weapon that outguns them all in most cases’’ e.g. bar or hellriegel.
It also gives devs more flexibility moving forward to ensure not all weapons feel and handle the same. This was a big issue in BF4 - huge arsenal of weapons, but most felt the same. And most handled the same. And then you had 1 or 2 only that people actually used.
I mean, you had AEK and M416, there was the ACE too. These were really the only three options for medic, for example. Out of what, 30 weapons or so?
Yep. Also see putting Legacy Conquest in CTE a year later.
Even the ADAD spam fix attempts …shows they really don’t have a feel for when something is pretty good or not.
It’s almost like a different team with less experience in a different country more connected to the whims of social media are in charge of patching the game now.
Yeah that’s what they said their goal was with the TTK change idea. They wanted to make room to put in new Support guns in future DLC that were unique.
But …I feel like the weapons in BF1 are already a lot more unique than the ones in BF4. And trying to rearrange something so fundamental a year later is just going to mess up the entire game.
As I say in every thread of this sort, drastic changes to the game after the full year of life cycle won’t bring anything good to it. It’s just a pathetic attempt to please those whiners and “not muh bf4” personalities.
Exactly. I’d support a TTK shift targeted specifically at guns that need it, but just buffing all the automatic weapons, including the current meta weapons, won’t accomplish much besides making life harder for scouts and medics.
This is what I’m not really understanding about this TTK business. I may be missing something here but it seems to me that if you buff everything across the board you are essentially back at square one.
Medic is just as good in the CTE as in the base game and better because of the range buffs. I wish people wouldn’t cry about things they don’t understand.
Bullets are bullets in this game there isn’t some folder that says ‘bar bullet damage’ or whatever. So it’s obvious the first pass would consist of each projectile recieving a buff.
Its also true that just buffing some guns and leaving others wouldn’t fix it on its own either. Like if they buffed the Lewis damage but kept the BAR the same why would you ever use the BAR again if it didn’t retain some kind of TTK advantage by comparison? It’d be very weak by comparison.
But the dice developers had noticed that certain guns in the new TTK make that necessary already. Like the MG 14/17
But the buffed MP18 is much better than a buffed Hellriegel because there is a huge difference in 26.5 and 28 damage and the 4 hit damage range on the MP18 is over twice as long.
If that were true, then MP18 would be the new meta for Assault, and the Hellriegel would be left behind. Ultimately, it’s the same scenario but with a change in which weapon is used the most.
What we want is to have different viable choices. Right now, we don’t have that - but a buff for all automatic weapons won’t change that, it will be all the same.
So other players don’t understand, but you do. That being the case, please, enlighten us.