Why is the Autoloading 8.25 Extended used way more than the Chauchat?

Battlefield 1 General Discussion
1

The Autoloading 8.25 Extended is consistently the most used Medic gun in the game, by a pretty good margin. Meanwhile, while the Chauchat Low Weight gets a decent amount of use, it is only around the 6th to 8th most used LMG on any given day. And Medics are played a lot more than Support. Put that all together, and the Autoloading Extended is used roughly 5 times more than the Chauchat. My question is why? Despite being in different classes, the two guns are actually pretty similar, and I think there’s a good argument that the Chauchat Low Weight is the better gun.

Let me explain:

Similarities

There are a lot of general similarities:

  • Both guns can shoot at 359 RPM and are a 3-shot kill up to 20 meters.
  • Their recoil stats are pretty similar, with the Chauchat having slightly worse horizontal recoil while the Autoloading Extended has slightly worse vertical recoil.
  • The Chauchat has a slightly bigger clip size (20 vs. 16), while the Autoloading Extended has a 0.5 second shorter reload time.

So, at their core, both of these guns basically have the exact same TTK up through 38 meters. They’re pretty comparable in terms of controlability. And they’ve got a fairly comparable clip-size/reload-speed combination.

Differences: Spread

One area of difference that can kind of go either way are the spread stats. Obviously, one gun being a Medic gun and the other being an LMG, there are very different spread models. Typically, the spread model for a Medic gun is better, but the Chauchat has a very low first shot spread multiplier and a very high spread decrease stat.

The result is this:

  • If you fire both weapons at max RPM while standing still in ADS, the Autoloading 8’s first three shots will be more accurate than the Chauchat’s (the first shot only because the base standing-still ADS for the Autoloading 8 is slightly better than the Chauchat’s, not because of the LMG spread multiplier). However, the Chauchat will be more accurate for every shot after that. This is honestly pretty comparable, unless you’re freakishly accurate, in which case the Autoloading 8 would have the better spread model for you while standing still in ADS since you wouldn’t need the shots where the Chauchat is better.

  • If you fire both weapons at max RPM while moving in ADS, the Autoloading 8’s first two shots will both be barely more accurate than the Chauchat’s and then the Chauchat will be more and more accurate for every shot after that. Overall, the Chauchat’s spread model while moving in ADS is pretty clearly better than the Autoloading 8’s.

  • Interestingly, the Chauchat’s spread decrease stat is so much higher that both weapons can eliminate any spread increase in ADS by firing at exactly 326 RPM instead of 359 RPM. This is another similarity.

  • The Chauchat’s hip fire spread while standing and moving is 2.75, while the Autoloading 8’s is 2.5. Meanwhile, LMGs have large first shot spread increases when in hip fire. Still, though, the Autoloading 8 will only be more accurate in hip fire for the first 5 shots (and the 1st and 5th shots are only more accurate by small amounts), and after that the Chauchat will be slightly more accurate. In any event, again, the Chauchat can actually eliminate any spread increase with hip fire by shooting at 326 RPM (which, it’s worth noting may be similar to the rate of fire lots of people shoot the Autoloading 8 at anyways, especially on console where 359 RPM semi auto is particularly hard to keep up). So, the Autoloading 8’s spread model is better with hip fire, but the difference is actually relatively minor if you’re not able to consistently fire at the Autoloading 8’s max fire rate (since you can just replicate that same fire rate with the Chauchat, and both guns would basically always be at their minimum hip spreads of 2.75 for the Chauchat and 2.5 for the Autoloading 8).

Overall, the spread models are definitely different, but I’m not sure the Chauchat really looks worse overall here, unless you’re incredibly skilled with the Autoloading 8 (i.e. super accurate and able to maintain the max fire rate, in order to make the most out of the above-mentioned strengths).

Differences: Chauchat’s Advantages

Beyond spread, there are actually a lot of significant areas where the Chauchat Low Weight is superior to the Autoloading 8. In rough order of importance:

  • The Chauchat’s damage model is better. At 39 meters and beyond, the Autoloading 8 Extended requires 5 bullets to kill. The Chauchat only requires 4 bullets at those ranges.

  • The Chauchat has a bipod, which is obviously a big deal.

  • The Chauchat is an automatic weapon, while the Autoloading 8 is semi-automatic. It is hard to maintain the max RPM on the Autoloading 8, while it is obviously easy on the Chauchat. Furthermore, especially on console very fast semi-automatic rates of fire make it a good bit more difficult to aim well since you need to be spamming fire with your right index finger while simultaneously making precise movements with your right thumb to aim. Making those precise movements is a lot easier with an automatic weapon.

  • The Chauchat has substantially better recoil decrease stats. This allows easier tap fire at a relatively fast rate since you won’t need to adjust for the recoil quite as much when you tap fire.

  • The Chauchat’s muzzle velocity is slightly better (720 m/s vs. 660 m/s). Not a big difference but worth something.

Difference: Autoloading 8 Extended’s Advantages

The Autoloading 8 Extended only really has one advantage beyond the above-discussed spread issues. And that is a faster ADS time, combined with the LMG issue of being inaccurate if you fire while ADSing. This is a significant advantage. But it is worth noting two things: (1) The Chauchat has the lowest max ADS spread of all LMGs. In other words, it gets punished the least for shooting while ADSing; (2) If you use a bayonet on your Autoloading 8, then the ADS time is the same as the Chauchat Low Weight’s ADS time.

The point here is that I think the Chauchat Low Weight may be a similar but better gun than the Autoloading 8 Extended, so I find it odd that it is used so much less.

The guns have the same TTK up through 38 meters. Their recoil stats are pretty comparable. Their clip-size/reload-speed combination is pretty comparable. Their spread models are different, but they’re pretty comparable overall unless you are incredibly skilled with the Autoloading 8 (and, even if you are, the Chauchat still has a better spread model for ADS while moving). The Chauchat does have the higher ADS time of LMGs (though it is punished less for it than other LMGs). In return, the Chauchat kills much faster outside of 38 meters, has a bipod, can fire automatic, and has better recoil decrease and muzzle velocity.

2

Autoloading 8.25 is a base game weapon, while ChautChat is a DLC weapon. Thats what sets them apart.

3

Plus since they are different class weapons they will be used differently … and there are a lot better LMG options.

4

Because they are CQB weapons and LMG’s has terrible ADS times. Also the SLR’s have a FSM of 1, wich make them really accurate for upper body/headshots. Max RPM is extreamly easy so it’s not a problem to be accurate and fast. I dont see any advantages at all at their niche.

5

Ammo capacity probably a factor, Autoloader has one of the largest ammo counts of all the SLR’s with 16 round magazine. where the Chautchat has one of the smallest of 20 rounds and it also has a slow rate of fire, still a great LMG and One of my favourites.

6

One user can heal themselves whilst the other can’t.

7

Autoloading is a Medic rifle and vanilla

Chauchat is a support rifle and dlc

Why are you even trying to Compare them and their usage???

8

The Chauchat’s spread decrease stat is so high that it has no spread increase at all if you tap fire at 326 RPM or lower. In other words, if you tap fire at that rate, the Chauchat will always be at its minimum spread. The same exact thing is true of the Autoloading 8 Extended. How often are you tap firing headshots faster than 326 RPM? I don’t think that anyone really does that.

It is definitely true that the Chauchat’s ADS time is a distinct negative compared to the Autoloading 8 Extended. But, remember, the Chauchat (along with a few other LMGs) is punished the least of the LMGs for shooting while ADSing. If you are within like 10 meters, it actually probably doesn’t make all THAT much of a difference with the Chauchat. Besides, one should probably generally hip fire with both weapons within that range anyways. It starts to be a bigger deal after 10 or so meters IMO.

I get what you’re saying but that strikes me as a bit of an odd point. The Autoloading 8 Extended is evidently deemed to be the best Medic weapon in the game, since it is the most used by a substantial margin. If I’m right that the Chauchat is equal or better than the Autoloading 8 Extended, and there are a lot better LMG options than the Chauchat, then you’d think LMGs would be considered better than Medic weapons. But that’s not the conventional wisdom at all. In fact, it’s quite the opposite.

The Chauchat’s ammo capacity is unambiguously superior to the Autoloading 8 Extended’s. The Chauchat has 20 rounds per clip. The Autoloading 8 Extended has 16 rounds. And they have the same bullets to kill up to 38 meters, while the Chauchat kills in fewer bullets past that. The Chauchat objectively has a superior clip size to the Autoloading 8 Extended.

And you mention rate of fire, but the Chauchat and Autoloading 8 Extended have the exact same max rate of fire.

This actually demonstrates my point. People decide a weapon’s strengths and weaknesses based on comparisons to its class, which leads to some illogical opinions. Somehow, the Autoloading 8’s clip size and rate of fire is a strength because they are both good for the Medic class, but the Chauchat has a larger clip size and the same rate of fire, and both are considered a weakness since they are lower than most LMGs?? It makes no sense. The Chauchat’s damage model, rate of fire, and clip size basically make it a Medic rifle that happens to have the LMG spread model and a bipod. It is closer to a Medic gun than it is to the rest of the Support guns, and I think it should be compared as such.

Because the Chauchat is basically balanced to be a Medic rifle with some LMG traits. It has the damage model, rate of fire, and clip size of a Medic rifle. IMO it has more in common with guns like the Autoloading 8 Extended and the M1907 Sweeper than it does with any LMG.

As for the Chauchat being a DLC weapon, sure that is true, but there are a lot of very highly used DLC weapons. For instance, the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th most used LMGs are DLC weapons. The Fedorov Trench is consistently the 2nd most used Medic weapon, while the Fedorov Optical is typically 3rd or 4th. The 2nd most used SMG is a DLC weapon. So yes, it’s correct that some of the Autoloading 8’s superior usage over the Chauchat is likely due to being a vanilla weapon, but that clearly doesn’t explain all of it, when we notice that there are tons of DLC weapons that are used way more than the Chauchat. It doesn’t seem like being a DLC weapon has that big of a negative effect on usage. Which makes sense because, at this point in the game’s lifecycle, how many people are really still playing the game who haven’t gotten the DLC? The player population is pretty low, so we’re likely down to the most dedicated players. More directly, the Chauchat is legitimately used only 20% as much as the Autoloading 8 Extended. Do you really think that the universe of people actively playing this game who have access to the Chauchat is only 20% of the people who have access to the Autoloading 8 Extended? That seems obviously false (like, not even close to true), and if it is false, then the player base is preferring the Autoloading 8 for reasons other than DLC vs. vanilla.

One user can give ammo while the other can’t. I get your point (healing yourself is a very powerful ability), but are you just saying that the Medic gadgets are way better than the Support’s gadgets? If so, I probably do agree. But then do you think that the LMGs are better weapons than the Medic weapons? Because that’d be the logical conclusion here. If the Chauchat is equal to or superior to the Autoloading 8 Extended, yet many LMGs are used more than the Chauchat while the Autoloading 8 Extended is by far the most used Medic weapon, then it would stand to reason that there are many LMGs that are better than any Medic weapon. (Yes, you could try to explain this away by saying the Chauchat is a DLC weapon, but most of the LMGs ahead of the Chauchat in usage are also DLC weapons, so it’s not like it’s just artificially below inferior vanilla LMGs in usage because more people have access to those vanilla LMGs).

9

@lessthanjake123, when I said the Chauchat has a small mag and slow rate of fire I was comparing it to other LMG’s. Yes the BAR and Burton LMR have the same mag size but their rate of fire is a lot higher. Your average player looks for a gun that has high ammo capacity and rate of fire.

I think comparing guns from different classes is a bit pointless, yes they can have similar stats but you are overlooking what the class abilities are, which I think is the deciding factor.

10

Comparing guns from different classes can be quite relevant IMO if the gun performs more like the guns from another class than it does the guns from its own class. For instance, are we going to compare the M1908 Experimental to other Scout weapons? Are we going to compare the General Liu’s bolt action mode to Medic rifles? The Chauchat isn’t quite as idiosyncratic to its class as those weapons, but it definitely is a crossover weapon that is probably closer to the weapons of another class.

Ultimately, yes, class abilities are a deciding factor. If I want to play as a Medic, I’d obviously rather use the Autoloading 8 Extended than the Chauchat. And vice versa if I want the Support abilities. But in a way that misses the point. Within their own classes, the Autoloading 8 Extended is a dominant weapon chosen far more than others, while the Chauchat is outstripped within its class by multiple other guns (including many that are also DLC weapons, so that’s not why). I find this difficult to make sense of, given that the two weapons are quite similar I think the Chauchat may actually be better.

One explanation would be that the LMGs that are chosen more than the Chauchat are better than both the Chauchat and the Autoloading 8 Extended (i.e. if you put them in the Medic class, they’d be used more than the Autoloading 8 Extended). But that would certainly go against the conventional wisdom that Medic rifles are better. One other explanation is that the Chauchat and Autoloading 8 are similar weapons, but their strengths and weaknesses mesh better with the Medic class’s gadgets than the Support class’s gadgets. This could explain the Autoloading 8 getting such a high percent of usage in the Medic class, while the Chauchat gets much less use in the Support class. Again, I actually am not sure this is right, though. Both weapons excel in relatively close quarters due to the 3 shot kill within 20 meters. Medic gadgets definitely fit best with close quarters weapons, since you need to be in the thick of things to revive and heal. But you also need to be in the thick of things to provide ammo, and the Limpet Charge is probably the best other Support gadget and definitely requires being in close quarters. Obviously, both classes also have rifle/crossbow grenades that aren’t necessarily for close quarters. Overall, I think both classes’ best gadgets fit the guns’ playstyle similarly.

11

My point here, I think, is that weapons’s strengths and weaknesses and their overall evaluation is oddly done only against their own class’s weapons. The Autoloading 8 Extended has a large clip size and a high rate of fire, because it’s a Medic weapon. Yet the Chauchat has a debilitatingly small clip size and a terrible rate of fire, because it’s an LMG. Yet, objectively speaking, the Chauchat has a larger clip size and equal rate of fire compared to the Autoloading 8. (All while having a similar but superior damage model. Obviously, having a larger clip size and equal rate of fire would be meaningless if the gun did way less damage. But it doesn’t).

My theory is that if you put the Chauchat into the Medic class, it would get used WAY more than it is now. Not just because more people play Medic than play Support (due to Medics’ superior gadgets IMO). Rather, it’d mostly be because the Chauchat would be compared against different benchmarks so people would see its supposed weaknesses (clip size and rate of fire) as strengths.

12

Another example of this would be to compare the Fedorov with the Huot Low Weight. They are very similar guns (the Fedorov Degtyarev probably being the most similar due to its lower recoil, bipod, and AA sights, though that’s the least-used Fedorov for obvious reasons, even though I think the consensus would be that it’s the best one). But the Fedorov gets used a ton and is considered great due to its high automatic rate of fire, decent clip size, decent controllability, etc. while the Huot is considered to be hampered by mediocre rate of fire and small clip size.

To be clear, the Fedorov Degtyarev definitely has advantages over the Huot Low Weight. It has a faster ADS time. It has better TTK over the 20-40 meter range (though the Huot has slightly better TTK within 20 meters, and much better TTK in the distances further than 40 meters). It has a bit better hip fire. It has slightly better reload time. But the Huot has some advantages too. The aforementioned better TTK at shorter and longer distances. Significantly better muzzle velocity. Better accuracy while bipodded (I believe bipods remove the first shot spread multiplier, but not the spread increase per shot, meaning LMGs on a bipod always operate at their minimum spread value, while other guns do actually have spread increases on bipod. I may be wrong though). In other words, the Fedorov Degtyarev and Huot Low Weight are extremely similar guns, with the Fedorov having advantages within 40m and the Huot probably being better past that.

13

I think it may come down to the general attitude of support players and the nature of the Chauchat.

Just to be clear, the Chauchat is one of my most favorite guns in the entire game. Good stats, interesting history and hits like a truck.

However, I like it as a run-n-gun weapon, like people would use its real-life counterpart as.

The people who play support seem to be deviating more to setting up on hilltops and raining down fire on enemies, and the Chauchat’s low mag size and slow fire rate is a major turn off for people who may want to choose, say, the M1917 MG.

Now, there are people who like to run n gun with their LMGs. But when that comes around, people seem to choose the Burton LMR, MG14/17 Parabellum, or BAR, because plenty of people believe high fire rate will always beat the size of the round (which isn’t true, I had to explain to someone that the 8MM Lebel Chauchat has larger rounds than the 9MM Glisenti Automatico, and even then he couldn’t believe he got outplayed by a wartime emergency design from France)

So in conclusion, it’s the nature of the class.

Don’t let people not using this gun get you down, though. Play with it yourself, I use the Vetterli-Vitali M1870/87 plenty of times. Enjoy what gun you like using.

14

Still don’t get this thread.

Two completely different weapons in two seperate classes

15

They have the same exact rate of fire. They have similar damage models (certainly more similar than the Chauchat’s damage model is to any LMG). They have similar recoil numbers. They have comparable clip sizes. They have similar muzzle velocities. They literally are both balanced to be able to negate any spread increase per shot by shooting at 326 RPM. Their hip fire spread numbers are close.

Go play with the Chauchat on semi-automatic mode and tell me it doesn’t feel extremely similar to the Autoloading 8 Extended. Honestly, if you put the Chauchat on semi-automatic mode and put a bayonet on the Autoloading 8 Extended (which many people do, and makes the two guns have the same ADS time), the guns feel virtually identical, the main difference being the bipod and 4-shot kill past 38 meters on the Chauchat.

Put differently, I’d like you to name one LMG that is more similar to the Chauchat than the Autoloading 8 Extended is. There isn’t one. Heck, I’m not even sure there’s a Medic gun that is more similar to the Autoloading 8 than the Chauchat is.

Are they different guns? Sure. But unless every gun is “completely different” from every other gun (which would negate the possibility of making ANY comparisons), then I don’t see how the two guns are “completely different.” Separate classes, sure. But not completely different guns.

16

rW8ReE

17

Less random spread so the bullets land where they are intended.

18

I actually like the Chauchat. I also play Support more than any other class. However, I tend to pick a main gun that matches more to the faction in playing.

And like someone else said, Support many other options. The Chauchat is a good overall gun with it’s manageable recoil from it’s lower RoF, higher damage per shot, and is pretty accurate. But at times you just want to use something that spits out a stream of lead, or a long suppressive fire dump, or even now, incendary rounds against aircraft.

Really as far as LMG are concerned, guns like the Chauchat , Bar, and that British H whatever, they are more like assault rifles, not so much like LMG’s. Most support players want a high RoF with a large magazine capacity. If they wanted a smaller mag, then they just might play Assault.

19

I get that, but the Chauchat Low Weight actually has a favorable spread mechanic compared to other LMGs, because it only has a -4 first shot spread multiplier, along with a very low minimum ADS while moving. Let’s take a closer look at their spread values for each shot while stationary in ADS and while moving in ADS:

Stationary in ADS

Let’s say you’re shooting 8 shots in a row while stationary in ADS. Here would be the spread values for each shot for the Chauchat Low Weight:

Shot 1: 0.24
Shot 2: 0.664
Shot 3: 0.558
Shot 4: 0.452
Shot 5: 0.346
Shot 6: 0.24
Shot 7: 0.24
Shot 8: 0.24

Here would be the spread values for each shot with the Autoloading 8 Extended:

Shot 1: 0.18
Shot 2: 0.28
Shot 3: 0.38
Shot 4: 0.48
Shot 5: 0.58
Shot 6: 0.68
Shot 7: 0.78
Shot 8: 0.88

The Autoloading 8 only has an advantage on shots 1-3, and shot 1 is only by a small margin. I’d say this is only better if you have such good aim that you consistently down things super quickly or if you’re consistently coming up against low health enemies who can be downed quickly. If you take even 6 shots (which, remember, these guns are both 4 shot kills outside of close quarters, and the Autoloading 8 goes to 5 shots after 38 meters), then the total spread for the Autoloading 8 over those 6 shots is higher than the Chauchat. In other words, the Autoloading 8’s spread model while stationary in ADS is actually only better if you are going to down your opponent in just 5 shots or less. There are definitely plenty of scenarios where that’ll be true, but many of them are in close quarters where these spread values are mostly irrelevant since even the high-spread shots will hit. And there are certainly a ton of scenarios where it takes more than 5 shots, even for really good players. So, while this is debateable and both guns have their strengths and weaknesses, I think it’s far from clear cut that the Chauchat’s spread model while stationary in ADS is worse. IMO you’d have to be an extremely good player for the Autoloading 8 Extended’s spread model to definitely be better.

Moving in ADS

What about their spread values when you are moving in ADS? Again, let’s say you are shooting 8 shots in a row while moving in ADS. Here would be the spread for the Chauchat Low Weight:

Shot 1: 0.56
Shot 2: 0.984
Shot 3: 0.878
Shot 4: 0.772
Shot 5: 0.666
Shot 6: 0.56
Shot 7: 0.56
Shot 8: 0.56

Here would be the spread for each shot for the Autoloading 8 Extended:

Shot 1: 0.82
Shot 2: 0.92
Shot 3: 1.02
Shot 4: 1.12
Shot 5: 1.22
Shot 6: 1.32
Shot 7: 1.42
Shot 8: 1.52

This one is clear cut. There is literally no number of shots you can shoot for which the Autoloading 8 would have better total spread overall than the Chauchat. The Chauchat has better spread for every shot (often by a very large margin) except Shot #2 where the Autoloading 8 is very slightly ahead.

Conclusion

Overall, taking stationary and moving spread together, it actually seems to me that the ADS spread model of the Chauchat Low Weight is preferable to the Autoloading 8 Extended’s, at least when both guns shoot at their max fire rate.

Of course, the Autoloading 8 user can eliminate a lot of its spread by shooting at a lower fire rate than max. And, realistically, simply to control recoil, that will actually typically be what the Autoloading 8 user does at distances that are long enough that these ADS spread values really matter. But that’s where the Chauchat’s massive spread decrease stat comes into play. When you tap fire an LMG, you gain that massive initial spread increase every shot, so it’s typically not a good idea to tap fire. But the Chauchat Low Weight has a massive spread decrease stat, so you can actually tap fire very close to the max fire rate while completely mitigating all of that first shot spread increase. So, even though the Chauchat has much higher first shot spread increase than the Autoloading 8 Extended does, both guns can actually eliminate their spread increase entirely by shooting at 326 RPM or lower, instead of the max fire rate of 359 RPM. And, I think it’s reasonable to say that at those distances where ADS spread values are important, you wouldn’t tap fire faster than 326 RPM. I should note that it is true that the Chauchat has some bad spread if you shoot even closer to that 359 RPM without getting there (for instance, if you hypothetically shot at 349 RPM, the Chauchat would have spread increase of 0.297 per shot, while the Autoloading 8 would have just 0.07 per shot). But if you want to do more than 326 RPM with the Chauchat you wouldn’t tap fire anyways so it’s really a moot point. The point here is that if you opt to tap fire at distance with both guns, then you very likely will sit at the minimum spread value on both of them (though it’s mildly notable that that’s 0.24 for the Chauchat and only 0.18 for the Autoloading 8).

20

Ummmmm… The med pack…
There u go ur answer.