#MakeSnipersGreatAgain - How to fix BF 5 scoped Air guns

L-M3rc3n4ry · May 25, 2019, 7:04am

I an an HUGE fan of anti materiel rifles. Only managed to try once IRL(rented an ar-50a1 but never owned any gun), decided to wait and see if DICE will nerf or not the gun.

mf_shro0m · May 25, 2019, 1:46pm

GP-Caliber:

y_j_es_i:

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y_j_es_i:

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y_j_es_i:

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-L-M3rc3n4ry:

von_Campenstein said:

y_j_es_i said:

DingoKillr wrote: »
y_j_es_i said:

DingoKillr wrote: »

y_j_es_i said:

One_Called_Kane wrote: »

y_j_es_i said:

Let’s revisit the fact that the G95 does 80 damage up to 25m and the Kar does 75 damage up to 25m. This means that within 25m, following up a shot from any of the assault guns or LMGs and MMGs with a G95 or Kar round would result in a kill. Is this any different to if G95s did 95 damage? In 99% of engagements, no

Actually yes, it would as I and several others in this thread have told you already. You seem bound and determined to believe that this 2% number you’ve pulled from your posterior is valid. 95 damage within 25m is significant. The fact that you continue to refuse to see this absolutely blows my mind. That means that an enemy who has been brushed by a grenade, or grazed by a bullet, or sneezed at by a vehicle, or simply stubbed their little toe jumping out of a window is now a one shot kill. And the curve starting at 95 instead of 80 means that the dropoff gets pushed further back, meaning pistols with poor damage output but fast draw speeds can be used for that last hit.

How often do you see recons with G95s or Kars sticking with their squads to make the most of this?

I have literally never seen it.

What does this mean?

Absolutely nothing, as you are:

Not necessarily looking for the situation you are listing in the first place, making your statements on the subject uncertain at best. Even if you were,

You are a single player in a population of tens of thousands, making your personal experiences at best a small drop in the bucket and at worst tainted by confirmation bias.

It means that increasing their damage to 95 at close range won’t actually make a noticeable difference.

Because you say so.

It’d be like giving the medic guns at launch an extra 1m of range to silence the chatter about how EA f*ed up the balancing. It’s like trying to close a deep gash in your leg with a plaster

Apples and oranges. A 1m range increase is not comparable to a 15% damage increase. To say otherwise is either ignorant or dishonest.

I think it’s funny how confident you seem to be seeing as only 2% of players stuck with their squads on the larger maps in CoD whilst holding BAs, and some of those BAs are OHK to everything but the enemy’s hands and feet.

Can’t you figure out why players doing that are so few and far between?

It’s because the vast majority can still do better with ARs, LMGs and SARs

Ignoring the magic 2% number you seem so fond of quoting, this statement is so completely divergent from the topic you may as well be supporting yourself with statistics from Counterstrike (or maybe not). Call of Duty has

1. No squad system

2. Completely different gunplay mechanics

3. Completely different movement

4. Completely different map sizes

5. Completely different team sizes

So what if there’s a few more recons in this world who can roll around wrecking havoc, there are some assaults and supports doing that every round. I saw a game where this dude who wasn’t camping went 200+:2 in a game of GO with a G43

An individual’s performance in an unranked public lobby counts for exactly zip and zilch where weapon balance is concerned. For every one guy like that I can point out entire teams of people going negative using the same gun.

Whilst you may not care about getting more recons to ptfo as opposed to hill humping or about making using BAs feasible for ptfo in the hands of good players, a lot of people do

My suggestion is 100% about making BA’s more feasible to PTFO for good players. Your suggestion is tantamount to taking the top 40% of bolt action users and making them as effective as the top 10%. I care about improving the gameplay for Recon players, but not at the expense of balance.

You’re enlarging the effect of increasing damage to 95 with your own confirmation bias.

How often have you seen people complain about the SMLE MKIII being OP in BFI?

Introducing a sweet spot at 10-30m and 10-60m would essentially make the BAs in BFV feel like the SMLE did in BFI. The only differences would be that the sweet spot is shifted 20m closer and all the BAs but the Enfield will have 5-6 rounds per mag as opposed to 10.

If the MKIII wasn’t considered OP in BFI then adding a sweet spot at 10-30m and 10-60m won’t be considered OP either

DICE must have thought plenty of complaints as they added glint to every Recon scope and gave the target a rainbow every time scoped looked at them in sweet spot range.

Even with such a sweet spot BFV weapons will not feel like BF1.

P.S. Every 3x scope already has slower ADS times than Iron Sights. That’s another problem with zoom, scopes and sights visibility.

They added scope glint to make camping harder. Scope glint doesn’t really affect you at close-medium because they’re gonna know exactly where you are anyway.

The reason x6 scopes have more glint than x3 scopes is to discourage the use of x6 and thus discourage players from sniping from 200+m away

I know that every x3 scopes already ADSes slower than iron sights but I think they should make the difference in ADS speeds bigger. Not only would this encourage recons to use iron sights but it’ll encourage assaults and supports too

Camping harder, really high power scopes had glint from the start low power Recon scopes only got it so they could get rainbow glint when you see them in the sweet spot.

You clearly believe the myth that glint discourages campers. If I choice the x6 scope knowning it has a strong glint at which distance with the current weapon spec am I going to stay at? Close to medium where the glint can be easily seen making me a easy target for any or long range where if it is seen few can not easily reach.

When glint was added to the lower power scopes in BF1 I saw more switch to Medic or high power scopes on BA then Iron Sight BA. The only big IS BA users was Aim Assist users which does not exist in that form in BFV.

Making ADS speeds slower might move more to IS but it will be even more annoying and kills a meta balance. You are not making guns with scopes better giving them a major disadvantage at medium range, effectively buffing IS. Those that use scopes will stop using even low power scopes/sights too and more will move to either x3 or IS. Moving to x3 will push them further out to over come the slow ADS.

That is not what should happen, IS should not be the go to sight for close to medium range. Even not increasing ADS times on lower power scopes/sights now gives them the advantage so players will switch those instead of IS.

Players will either take the easiest path for high rewards or will continue to play their style no matter how diffcult.

I mean increase the ADS speed incrementally in line with their magnification.

Dude, only something like 5% of players even use aperture sights because they suck.

The reason why players didn’t really start using IS in BFI is because the sweet spots were mostly at 60-100m, with some at 100-150m. So if you want to use the sweet spot, it’s better to move away and switch to a BA with a sweet spot that’s further away, because 60-100m is tough with IS

If however all the sweet spots were at closer than 60m then people would have to choose between having no sweet spot and staying/moving further away and moving closer to <60m which is optimal for using IS

Noone I’ve talked to who used bolt actions in BF1 selected them based on their sweetspot, they opted for a good clear iron sight, clip size, reload time was also a factor but rarely if ever was the sweetspot brought up in the equation.

This is partially truth. For most rifles, yes, But Martini for eg is only used by his sweetspot. Worst muzzle speed, worst clip size, long reload time, but the best sweetspot. The SMLE has a lot of advantages for aggressive play, teh sweetspot is just one more advantage.

this. the main reason people use the smle is because of its versatility and 10 round clip. if the smle did not have a sweet spot it would still be the best rifle in the game.

I very much doubt that. If they buffed the BFV enfield’s muzzle velocity to 800m/s but made it so headshots were 2HKs, no-one would use it. Why would they pick it over an SLR, let alone over an SAR?

haha like that is even an argument. 2 headshog kill takes away the biggest advantage of the rifle. an smle without a sweetspot is still 1 hit kill in the head. removing the 1 hit kill potential in the head is alot bigger nerf than removing the stupid sweet spot mechanic good players dont even need.

Most players would opt for a good sweet spot over 5 extra rounds per mag.
It’d be interesting to see what the average kill distance is with SMLEs and I’d bet it’s in the sweet spot

If you don’t ‘need’ a sweet spot then good for you dude, you’ve got an opener and something for your CV

most players maybe at the start. alot of players also picked the gewehr 95 wich has no sweet spot. sweet spot is situational at best and no effective way to play anyway. you are better off aiming for the head than aim for the sweet spot. It will make you a better player over time.

I think snipers dont need 1hk capability if they increase the velocity and time to switch sidearms.

Sixclick’s research says that only 6.3% of players used the G95 and tbh given it’s medium muzzle velocity and lack of a sweet spot, I get the feeling that most users treated it as a skill cannon. A glance at the stats suggests that it was arguably the worst BA in BFI so unless it had some unique perk I don’t see why someone would use it other than as a skill cannon.

What platform are you on?

From what I hear, being accurate and controlling recoil are quite a bit easier on PC than on consoles.
I’m on Xbox and I’ve literally never seen anyone ptfo with a BA. Or at least I’ve never been killed by someone ptfo with a BA.

At long range I fully agree with you that all BAs need is their real life muzzle velocities. At short-medium range tho (i.e. typical ptfo engagement distances), just increasing muzzle velocity and switch times won’t be enough imo (on consoles at least).
Buffing muzzle velocities and switch times would make recon more capable at 0-25m engagements. However, at 25-60m (which is where most ptfo engagements are fought) they’d still stand little chance. At 25-60m most assaults and supports will erase you before you can chamber a second BA round or switch to your sidearm and then land 1-2 shots with it.

So what I believe would happen is that for the vast majority of players buffing muzzle velocities and switch times would only serve to make them a bit less f*ed if they bump into someone in close quarters but they still wouldn’t be able to ptfo. I’m fine with below average players being unable to ptfo viably with BAs but I think the better third of players should be able to do so viably. I’m not saying well, just viably

Sweet spots are situational but if you place all the sweet spots at 20-40m or 20-60m depending on the gun’s damage, you would make it so that in order to take advantage of the sweet spot you have to get close to have that situational perk

reason people use the gewehr 95 is because of its rate of fire.

the solution for people ptfo is not adding a 1hk potential, because we had it before and players still camped. all it will do is make the players that are very good even better and makes for frustrating gameplay.

I play ps4 and have no problem playing the objective with the recon class. you have to use all the tools at your disposal to be effective. Use the spot flares, beacons. practice your drag shots and master the revolver. also the throwing knife is amazing for those clutch moments.

In BFV whilst I can ptfo with SLRs I just can’t do it with BAs. I only really started playing BFI 3 or 4 weeks ago and I’m having a lot of fun ptfo with the Ross and SMLE

Again, I’m only on them introducing sweet spots at close-medium range (<60m or <80m) so people will be incentivised to ptfo and campers won’t get a boost.

SorangFurry · May 26, 2019, 3:14pm

There are players those often just lay down or stand still to shoot something
That’s why some people say ‘Sniping in BFV is fine’ or ‘You should practice flanking’.
They sometimes even show me the video of them playing scout
In the video, they usually are just killing noobs those are just laying down or even afk literally.
x_x

SorangFurry · May 26, 2019, 3:28pm

Bullet velocities of bolt action rifles on scout class : 500m/s ~ 700m/s
Bullet velocites of semi-auto rifles on assault class : 610m/s ~ 920m/s

I have nothing to say more

SorangFurry · May 26, 2019, 3:38pm

According to Bftracker
I’m in top 0.1% on kills per minute with Carcano that doesn’t have sweet spot NOR OHK POTENTIAL at all, even with headshot
I don’t care about sweet spot or ohk. I’m not one of those kids only say ‘Bring me sweetspot back!!!’

The problem is bullet velocity, reloading time.

stabbinhobo · May 26, 2019, 3:42pm

My fav snipe wep is the ZH-29… round is slow as heck and recoil kicks like a mule. No distance zeroing ability and no headshot OHK at any range. Takes skill to knock off targets with it and if the target is moving laterally it becomes a 3hit kill.

Sometimes fun to grab an assault weapon… any one of them… equip a 3x scope and get to plinking at range. It’s pretty comical.

Near zero drop…

Fast as hell round…

Near no recoil…

No scope glint…

Gobs of ammo…

In short… I should just play assault.

Kunstula · May 26, 2019, 5:39pm

I have promised myself that as long as bolt action rifles do not have the highest muzzle velocity I won’t even consider buying this game. The game can’t possibly be good to play as scout with such a major design flaw.

Bolly_GB · May 27, 2019, 1:32am

Nope. If you want to be great, PTFO!

L-M3rc3n4ry · May 27, 2019, 3:31am

Yes, because if i kill someone in the objective with martini henry, i an not PTFO, but if i do the same with an spray and pray weapon, i an playing the objective /sarcasm

L-M3rc3n4ry · May 27, 2019, 3:32am

Do you really believe that anyone will use Boys AT rifle on BF 5 or Martini on BF 1 without OHK???

Sweetspot is necessary for slow firing weapons.

SorangFurry · May 27, 2019, 8:18am

I personally would still use them without OHK potential.
I’ve never used Boys AT rifle so I have nothing to say about it, but with martini henry, even when It didn’t kill the enemy, It’s just very easy to finish them with one single hipfire of pistol.
I can even go for headshots on most of shots. The amount of headshots I’ve got on BFV is in top 7% among PC players

Hawxxeye · May 27, 2019, 8:57am

SorangFurry:

-L-M3rc3n4ry:

SorangFurry:

According to Bftracker
I’m in top 0.1% on kills per minute with Carcano that doesn’t have sweet spot NOR OHK POTENTIAL at all, even with headshot
I don’t care about sweet spot or ohk. I’m not one of those kids only say ‘Bring me sweetspot back!!!’

The problem is bullet velocity, reloading time.

Do you really believe that anyone will use Boys AT rifle on BF 5 or Martini on BF 1 without OHK???

Sweetspot is necessary for slow firing weapons.

I personally would still use them without OHK potential.
I’ve never used Boys AT rifle so I have nothing to say about it, but with martini henry, even when It didn’t kill the enemy, It’s just very easy to finish them with one single hipfire of pistol.
I can even go for headshots on most of shots. The amount of headshots I’ve got on BFV is in top 7% among PC players

You need to take into consideration that the pistol switch time is slower in BFV compared to BF1 which combined with the low ttk of most weapons it means that you have a much lower chance to achieve an bodyshot+ pistol kill in BFV. For the regular bolt actions their max damage is not even enough to kill the injured enemy with one fast pistol swap (I mean not with the revolver)

L-M3rc3n4ry · May 27, 2019, 9:14am

SorangFurry:

-L-M3rc3n4ry:

SorangFurry:

According to Bftracker
I’m in top 0.1% on kills per minute with Carcano that doesn’t have sweet spot NOR OHK POTENTIAL at all, even with headshot
I don’t care about sweet spot or ohk. I’m not one of those kids only say ‘Bring me sweetspot back!!!’

The problem is bullet velocity, reloading time.

Do you really believe that anyone will use Boys AT rifle on BF 5 or Martini on BF 1 without OHK???

Sweetspot is necessary for slow firing weapons.

I personally would still use them without OHK potential.
I’ve never used Boys AT rifle so I have nothing to say about it, but with martini henry, even when It didn’t kill the enemy, It’s just very easy to finish them with one single hipfire of pistol.
I can even go for headshots on most of shots. The amount of headshots I’ve got on BFV is in top 7% among PC players

You will use, but will be effective as with an faster firing rifle?

Martini barely fires one round each 3.5 seconds. With the same time, you can fire 4 rounds with some rifles. If both are 2kh, why use the slower rifle?

I an not saying that all rifles should OHK. Only those who are very slow. On Heroes & Generals, you can mod your Kar98 to OHK, changing the bolt, the bullet, the barrel, etc; you need to grind a lot and it comes with an very slow ROF and an “drunk” sway, so most people use 2HK k98. You double the area to OHK(head + chest) but makes it many times harder to hit. In other words, not worth. OHK isn’t always OP.

PS : I an not in favor of K98 OHK on BF V, only having an faster time to switch to pistol, realistic muzzle speed, less ADS time, and 95 min damage(so you can finish with an sidearm), etc

Hawxxeye · May 27, 2019, 9:31am

We can only dream
This would make the rifles really good on long ranges like they are supposed to be but without cheesy ohk full health bodyshots. It would also give a slightly better chance in closer ranges if one does a good swap.

AlexGunnerMac · May 27, 2019, 10:17am

I’m loving the Snipers on BF5 especially the Gewehar M95/30.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNp0iD9nR0Q

xKusagamix · May 27, 2019, 10:19am

SorangFurry:

-L-M3rc3n4ry said:

SorangFurry said:
According to BftrackerI’m in top 0.1% on kills per minute with Carcano that doesn’t have sweet spot NOR OHK POTENTIAL at all, even with headshotI don’t care about sweet spot or ohk. I’m not one of those kids only say ‘Bring me sweetspot back!!!’
The problem is bullet velocity, reloading time.

Do you really believe that anyone will use Boys AT rifle on BF 5 or Martini on BF 1 without OHK???

Sweetspot is necessary for slow firing weapons.

I personally would still use them without OHK potential.I’ve never used Boys AT rifle so I have nothing to say about it, but with martini henry, even when It didn’t kill the enemy, It’s just very easy to finish them with one single hipfire of pistol.I can even go for headshots on most of shots. The amount of headshots I’ve got on BFV is in top 7% among PC players

The M95 will serve you just fine if you want a BAR that hit hard in close range, but relying on a second shot from a pistol is not as good as you thought. Because the TTK in BFV is much faster and the swap time for sidearm is much slower than BF1.

mf_shro0m · May 27, 2019, 2:11pm

-L-M3rc3n4ry:

SorangFurry said:

-L-M3rc3n4ry said:

SorangFurry said:
According to BftrackerI’m in top 0.1% on kills per minute with Carcano that doesn’t have sweet spot NOR OHK POTENTIAL at all, even with headshotI don’t care about sweet spot or ohk. I’m not one of those kids only say ‘Bring me sweetspot back!!!’
The problem is bullet velocity, reloading time.

Do you really believe that anyone will use Boys AT rifle on BF 5 or Martini on BF 1 without OHK???

Sweetspot is necessary for slow firing weapons.

I personally would still use them without OHK potential.I’ve never used Boys AT rifle so I have nothing to say about it, but with martini henry, even when It didn’t kill the enemy, It’s just very easy to finish them with one single hipfire of pistol.I can even go for headshots on most of shots. The amount of headshots I’ve got on BFV is in top 7% among PC players

You will use, but will be effective as with an faster firing rifle?

Martini barely fires one round each 3.5 seconds. With the same time, you can fire 4 rounds with some rifles. If both are 2kh, why use the slower rifle?

I an not saying that all rifles should OHK. Only those who are very slow. On Heroes & Generals, you can mod your Kar98 to OHK, changing the bolt, the bullet, the barrel, etc; you need to grind a lot and it comes with an very slow ROF and an “drunk” sway, so most people use 2HK k98. You double the area to OHK(head + chest) but makes it many times harder to hit. In other words, not worth. OHK isn’t always OP.

PS : I an not in favor of K98 OHK on BF V, only having an faster time to switch to pistol, realistic muzzle speed, less ADS time, and 95 min damage(so you can finish with an sidearm), etc

I disagree. I think the higher damage BAs (G95, Kar, Ross) should have a sweet spot at 10-60m and the lower damage BAs (Krag, Enfield) should have one at 10-30m so better players can run them with iron sights and ptfo. I rarely see players doing that in BF1 which is testament to short-medium range sweet spots not being OP. Sure some players will murk doing that but you I saw some dude go like 220-5 with a G43 and assaults and supports going 50-5 is a common sight

Additionally the BAs should have their bullet velocities buffed to their real life values and drag should be buffed to a more realistic state.

The assault and supports mains’ anti-scout/recon hate’s gone way too far

tripleoski · May 27, 2019, 7:57pm

I’m really enjoying the sniping on BF5 at first it was a bit tricky but you soon adjust. It’s not as easy as bf1 that’s all.

SorangFurry · May 28, 2019, 6:30am

You should play on Asia server
If you love to stay in zoom forever like you do in the video
You will be with 20 deaths without any kills